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Artefacts and PvP


Started by Sordak
Post #14988
Banned

867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

One thing that has been confirmed is the absense of Daedric Artefacts in conventional means.
That makes sense when you consider 500 people running around with the mace of molag bal might actually not be lore apropriate at all.

We had a discussion about this on Tamriel Foundry and i found some of these points actually valid.
One idea was that you could temporary have an Artefact in an instanced Quest or a Dungeon run. these ideas are fine but i want to talk about a different one.

Having them as Objectives in PvP.
We already know that there will be Elder Scrolls to capture that can give one faction a particular advantage so i spun this idea a bit further.
The idea is that one player can hold an artefact that will alter his skill set but drops on death. If you know the "packs" from Guildwars 2, think that but on steroids.

The one example i want to give is Umbra, because it makes the most sense in the setting and is probably the most fun one to implement.

Umbra the soul stealing sword naturally likes to find itself in a massive all out war, thats a place where it wants to be. So what i imagine is that there could be a world boss that spawns in the outskirts of a PvP zone.
Basically a huge daedra of molag bal that wields umbra in one hand (Umbra is always a claymore in my mind) it would take a raid sized party of highly skilled players to take down said world boss, naturally every faction could do this.
However these players would be missing on the field for a significant ammount of time, and all the factions would know when the boss spawns. its a game of risk.

I just want to keep in mind that PvE implementation in PvP is actually far from beeing unkown in MMO PvP. However many of its implementations, such as in GW2, have effects like NPC guards helping you defend your settlements after doing quests for them. i want a more direct route.
To move on:

Once the Boss is defeated, the player that contributed the most to the Battle will recieve the Umbra sword, he will therfor be consumed by the Blade. His name will change to "umbra" and he will wield the Umbrasword, i would also imagine the player to be rendered in full Ebony armor with a cloak and adornments of his faction to symbolize his allegiance. The Weapon would actually replace all of his other skills but give him now very devastating spells. To enemies he would only be seen as "umbra" kind of rendering him of his identity.

This does not only make sense from a lore standpoint but also for 1. clarity of the gameplay, you know who umbra is when he is aproaching, 2. the factor of intimidation, you see umbra aproaching, you know shit gets serious 3. the factor of detaching it from beeing a "reward" and getting it to be a "tactical tool" by that i mean the player possesed by umbra recieves no notice for the countless kills he gets in this strenghtened form. Instead he should recognize it as a means to lead his team to victory, and not to boost his own reputation.

Umbra would be able to be seen on the map for all the factions and would wield immense power, i would suggest some nasty AoEs that have synergy abilities (those have been detailed by the dev team) for friendly players to enhance the ability to cooperate and make Umbra always the leader of an assault.

But mind you, Umbra would always be at risk, beeing seen at all the map from enemies, he would be reckognized as a force to be reckoned with. And ambitious players would seek out to kill him, naturally this can also be used for scare tactics and fake assoults.

This leads me to my next point. Once umbra is defeated by an enemy player, the sword would drop and the enemy faction would get the controll of its powers. Making it a constant struggle for the power. This event would naturaly not occur all the time and the sword would vanish from time to time, and the world boss would respawn again after some time.

This makes for a diverse and organic PvP expirience that is driven by an easy to understand, transperent system that has many tactical options and also leads to many inter factional possibilities,s uch as teaming up against umbra, or speculating on getting it to have an advantage when the two other factions gang up on one.

Naturaly this doesnt have to be umbra, it could also be volendrung or any other artefact. It could be several at once. But umbra is the most befitting as it fits TESOs setting, the PvP as such and also has a tendency of taking over its host, not taking into account the wielders character to make for a better balance. This way a mage that picks up umbra will not be punished for not speccing into melee.

So what are your opinions on the matter?
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The following 1 user likes Sordak's post:
Deveron
Post #15011
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137
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
I think it would be awesome, but it's a lot of code for one item. It would have to be considered one of the central mechanics of the frontier, IMHO.

You'd have to prevent it from leaving Cyrodiil, and automatically drop if the player holding it disconnects, in addition to everything else you mention. My worry would be that taking Umbra would become a prerequisite for any major PvP raid, and would be powerful enough that it almost always would remain in the hands of the first realm to take it until it disappears again.

I think it would be better if, after it disappeared, it wouldn't respawn for several days, or maybe a couple weeks.
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Post #15013
Banned

867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

yeah the idea is that it is a rare event. as for the whole prerequisit thing, i wouldnt think so. keep in mind that you draw alot of attention to you.
From what i know from other PvP games. a system simmilar to the elder scrolls (power orbs in GW2 for example) is in place, and you actually dont need those to be any good, it just gives you a benefit.

thats why my idea was more about a "risk/reward" system rather than a straight up steroid.

and yess, naturally you cant take it out of cyrodiil, that would be silly, id just say if you drop it, and none of the enemy faction picks it up it just despawns.

As for the code. probably. but that depends on what ZOS has done before. if they have a system simmilar to GW2 in terms of these "packets" it wouldnt be alot of code. It realy depends on how flexible their engine is.
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Post #15020
Member

232
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Imperial
There's so many artifacts that would lend themselves to this kind of gameplay, I'd be astonished, if the developers did not consider implementing them in a similar way. If they found a way to pull that off in time is another question though.

So instead of players running around altered by artifacts, it could be we just have them somewhere displayed like trophies granting bonuses to all faction members and could be stolen, when the keeps they're displayed in are conquered. The closer to the front, the higher the bonus, perhaps.

I'd love to see Sordak's suggestion in action, but wouldn't expect it, though I'm sure artifacts will play a major role in Cyrodiil campaigns. Maybe it's something that could be added in later.


The Ghost of TESOF
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Post #15031
Member

16
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Aldmeri Dominion (Altmer)
Great idea! i really hope they implement this or something else along these lines. It would add so much to the PVP experience.
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Post #15032
Member

345
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
(December 4th 2012 03:56 PM)Sordak Wrote:  The idea is that one player can hold an artefact that will alter his skill set but drops on death

While that concept perfectly fits the GW2 and their shifting pre-determined skill sets, Im afraid it doesnt fit the philosophy of TESO evolving skills. You put some effort in leveling those skills, improving them and becoming familiar with them. Should be very personal matter and it doesnt give sense to suddenly replace them with some rarely obtained godmode action bar


Debating with someone on the Internet is like mudwrestling with a pig. You get filthy and the pig loves it
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Allyonna
Post #15033
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22
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Daggerfall Covenant (Breton)
(December 4th 2012 04:53 PM)Rage Wrote:  
(December 4th 2012 03:56 PM)Sordak Wrote:  The idea is that one player can hold an artefact that will alter his skill set but drops on death

While that concept perfectly fits the GW2 and their shifting pre-determined skill sets, Im afraid it doesnt fit the philosophy of TESO evolving skills. You put some effort in leveling those skills, improving them and becoming familiar with them. Should be very personal matter and it doesnt give sense to suddenly replace them with some rarely obtained godmode action bar

^^^Agreed.

I hate MMOs that "lock-in" skill sets. (probably why I play very few right now - none to be exact) I think that they should exist, but am unsure how artifacts could be successfully implemented.
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Post #15078
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536
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
I like Sordak's idea and, as Dev said, there are certainly no shortage of artifacts of Tamrielic lore conducive to such gameplay.

As far as implementation barriers are concerned, I think that they could avoid much of the trouble caused by a random boss mob spawn by placing Umbra's wielder in one of the PvP dungeons they talked about. If successful, the player will have Umbra for a set amount of time (and/or until the player dies), granting a passive buff to allies within X yards.

Umbra's hunger for souls causes all enemies struck by the weapon to yield a portion of their soul energy, granting one charge per swing. When the weapon reaches 20 charges, Umbra's hunger is satisfied, releasing a shockwave of soul energy that deals X damage (or w/e effect you want) to all enemies within 15 yards.

When the player dies or runs out of time, Umbra shatters, returning to its ethereal state -- awaiting the next adventurer whom it deems worthy.

This. Is. Totally. Doable.

Though awesome, I would tend to agree with Dev. We probably won't see it -- at least not for a while.
This post was last modified: December 4th 2012 07:20 PM by Reichmar12


Grand Marshal of
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Post #15133
Banned

138
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)

Nice idea.

I would like to see each artifact entail a different effect and abilitys but only 1 artifact appears at a time. so u dont have all the artifacts in use at the same time would be silly.

but if it was a random rare boss that spawned that wielded its own unique artifact and u were the main player in killing it you get to weild the artifact for a certain number of hours before it despawns and the process started again. would add some interesting fun in pvp.

i guess we can dream haha
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Post #15180
Banned

867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

I can see where Rage is coming from. But i have chosen this way of aproaching it for a very specific reason.

People are selfish. thats NOT a good thing. The idea with depersonalising Umbra is that a player that holds it does not get credit for it.
He knows that he does it for his team, he gets all the same credits as the rest of the team, so he is under pressure to make it count. As we can all agree on Umbra should not be a thing that is in the fray for a long time. so the pressure would be great.

as for umbra beeing a reward for a PvP dungeon, thats actually even better. Puts that right in there. However if its something like Darkness Falls and you need to have controll of the Imperial city already i wouldnt agree. The one faction controlling the Imperial City is already beeing helped with the Imperial Legions. There is no need to boost them even more.

On the subject of it just vanishing. Id actually like there to be the possibility to take away umbra from the player that wields it, that creates a much more interresitng risk/reward philosophy. and less of a "do X to be AWSOME" philosophy. The first is more TES while the second one is more MMO.

The other reason i wanted the sword to have its own stats is to make it work with every class. If a mage picks up umbra, he shouldnt get punished for it. Also i want the swords playstyle to be more diverse than the regular classes. And also more impactfull.
Umbra wouldnt be like... two times as strong as a player. Umbra would be like REALY strong. but only with teamwork and strategic use. As he would also be realy easy to see for his enemies (beeing shown on the map and all) and therfor prone to ambushes.

When it comes to the matter of other artefacts, lets tie that in with the idea of the PvP dungeon. Why not have a random Artefact as the reward. So one day you might get umbra, one day you might get volendrung (id imagine volendrung just knocking an enemy over the map, that would be hillarious)
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Post #15275
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536
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Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
Good fusion of ideas thus far..

What about having a pvp dungeon (or two) contain an underground daedric shrine. It would be random which Daedra is worshipped there at any one spawn, but you'd fight cultists, dremora, daedroth and a boss -- maybe an aspect or just an elite daedra of some kind.

The reason I say have two shrines is to add an element of uncertainty -- namely so that the bigger faction doesn't just control the spawn area and other factions have a chance to get one of these items for a while.


Grand Marshal of
The Buoyant Armigers
An Official TESOF Guild : Hardcore PvP/PvE


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Post #15283
Banned

867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

yess tho id suppose having too many of these artefacts in play at the same time would cause a clusterfuck.
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Post #15286
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Daggerfall Covenant
Redguard
I like this idea.

Adding objectives in PvP is a must full-stop to keep things interesting, in my opinion. Zerging 24/7 takes about as much skill as clapping your hands, and if you do it all the time it's about as exciting as that, too. An idea such as this, and basically anything that adds another dynamic to the battlefield*, gets my vote.







*Unless it's Huttball. Huttball can go burn in a special hell.
This post was last modified: December 5th 2012 08:28 AM by Triskele




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Post #15288
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536
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
Yeah, I suppose they could center around weapon artifacts -- perhaps making only one available at any one time.


Grand Marshal of
The Buoyant Armigers
An Official TESOF Guild : Hardcore PvP/PvE


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The following 1 user likes Reichmar12's post:
Konahrik
Post #15310
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27
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Ebonheart Pact (Nord)
This is a great idea, I believe this system would also provide the person the sence of being "The Hero among Hero's". I know we have all read about how can you make TES into an MMO when there can be only 1 hero and having this system would solve many concerns that people had.


"Pain is temporary... Glory is eternal"
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