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Himmelsrand? Why not Skyrim?!


Started by Idriar
Post #23898
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When the new wall paper and the avatars for the Daggerfall Covenant were published, many comments on the german facebooks site of TESO could be read and they all looked something like that:

"They translated Daggerfall!?"

"It´s a name! They can´t translate it!"

"What comes next?"

In the german version of TESO the "Daggerfall Covenant" is named "Dolchsturz Bündnis". Many think that this breaks the whole world. It takes off something from the game. Actually the bonds to TES 2 Daggerfall, which was the german name, too. Now some are against translation, cause they say, these aren´t mere words (Skyrim = Himmelsrand, High Rock= Hochfels). They say these are NAMES, unchangeable and if you change them, you take away all their meanings. Some Translations doesn´t make sense, even I think. White Shore Skyrim hold becomes "Pale" in german version, what isn´t a german word either.

Still there are translations everyone accepts without a word. (Falkenreath = Falkenring, White Run = Weißlauf, Redguard = Rotwardone)

There were other examples of translations, too. I have to mention World of Warcraft here. The german community was on rage when Blizzard translated every name in the world: Kingdom Stormwind to Königreich Sturmwind. Yeah right! Sturmwind. Changing one letter has great impact ,too. Of course there aren´t only such small changings, for example Iron Forge turned to Eisenschmiede. Here, too, some people claimes that changing the name into another language destroys it completely the meaning.

I don´t think so. The names are in fact a arrangement of words. So if you translate the words according to their meanings it doesn´t change the meaning. It´s just transported into another language, opened up to another set of people understanding the meaning now.

Take The Lord of the Rings: The Shire is obviously the analogue of the brithish country side and it´s society aswell. The obvious anachronism in a more or less savage medieval world is the very punch line of that joke, just like having the little, bequem Hobbits fighting against over mighty enemies.

But that was obvious just to english speakers (and Britons) in the first moment. How would you transport that joke to e.g. French or German readers as well? Yeah right! Translate it:

English Shire:

http://vnmedia.ign.com/lotrovault.ign.co...ullres.jpg

German Auenland:

http://www.hdro-wiki.de/images/3/38/Gesa...nlands.jpg


So everybody gets the punchline, maybe changed to themselfes as being the image of the hobbits. Of course not every name was translated literally. But it´s the meaning that matters. Of course "Fantasy" names like Ered Luin are untranslatable, but they don´t have a meaning in any real world language either. So they don´t need to be translated.

I ,for a one, welcome any translation! Not only because I´m german and would be too lazy to learn my english vocabulary. Hell no! There was always translation and there will be always translation. Every fantasy novel and every game will be translated into several languages. This is true to Lord of the rings, aswell as World of Warcraft aswell as Pokemon. Or do you think it´s Pewter City in Nippon? ;)

Still there are people who say "Ow, it was Iron Forge, and now Eisenschmiede! That´s so...odd! Naming a place after things!" Well I say, it is actually named after things from the beginning: A great dwarven town, famous for it´s black smithing. Someday they just called it that way: Iron Forge. That´s sounds pretty realistic to me, for a town a couple of kilometres from my position is named "Niefern" What actually means "Neverfar" in English. Look at the first english speaking settlers in Northern America, reaching out for the wild to build up new cities. Imagine a scene among them:

"Hey! It´s such a nice and warm day in SPRING! Really great weather, isn´t it?"

"Look at that FIELD! We should build our new home right here, shouldn´t we?"

"Yeah! Awesome! But we need a name for the city..."

Guess how they decided ;)

English map of Skyrim:

[Image: diEgL.jpg]

German map of Himmelsrand:

[Image: 2296927-medium.jpg]

Of course this is more a thing of german, french and other language people than english, but still english speakers would love to have some content of foreign fantasy or fiction, either books or games, but it isn´t in their language. On the other hand, nearly everybody speaks english. So a translation isn´t all that necesarry. But still then, it feels strange to mothertongue, having a game where everyone speaks french and than suddenly a english word in there...

All I want to say, it´s about meanings, not mere words. What do you think?


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

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Hentmereb
Post #23900
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I'm not a native speaker of either English, German or French, but overall I think that those names that are not in the fictional in-universe languages should be translated.
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Post #23902
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It will not effect me so I am not sure I should really comment on this, I can not read German, or French, only language I can read is English and the names are fine in that language. I can see why they might not like it though...
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Hentmereb
Post #23904
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im austrian. and i like the translation of Skyrim. it doesnt have the same ring to it. But it fits the theme alot better. I agree on Daggerfall it doesnt quite sound right. Considering the names originaly were just random things they came up with, i wouldnt concern myself too much with it anyway. Most of the names for places in TES are quite arbitrary.

So yess id say go for it. Why not translate it? Original its supposed to be of old tamrielan merrish tongue anyway. itll never be accurate.
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Post #23925
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(January 15th 2013 03:55 PM)Idriar Wrote:  All I want to say, it´s about meanings, not mere words. What do you think?

I completely agree. I have a hard time understanding what those people mean when they say the translation removes all meaning. To me it adds meaning.
If you say Skyrim to me I don't automatically think of the rim of the sky. They're just sounds until I think about what it means.
But if you would say Himmelsrand I would instinctively think of the rim of the sky, the horizon maybe or the lowest clouds, because that's what you're telling me.

But of course, if no previous TES were ever translated to German I can understand the emotional reaction to it. Were they to translat to my language (Swedish) I would think it a bit unnecessary but I wouldn't object if the translation was stylish and competent.

But what do you think most Germans really think about the translation? For every complainer there are usually tenfold or hundredfold who think it's perfectly fine.
This post was last modified: January 15th 2013 05:39 PM by Skrofler


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Hentmereb
Post #23930
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Uhhh.. I don't know where you got that map, but Dawnstar's hold is called "The Pale" in the English-language version of Skyrim too.


EDIT: Huh... they translated "Hold" as "Fürstentum"?* It kind of works, in a "reference to the Holy Roman Empire's electoral states" sense, but it took me aback for a moment, oddly "high/late Middle Ages"-feeling for Skyrim's pseudo-Dark-Ages setting.

*German for "Principality", for the English-only speakers here.

EDIT2: Mark! Mark! "March" should be translated to "Mark"! >_< Mind you, Hjalmarch isn't even on the border, but still...
This post was last modified: January 15th 2013 07:47 PM by MargieArgie


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Hentmereb
Post #23958
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Having Windhelms hold become "ostmark" would feel strangeley fammiliar dont you think?
and since the germans are afraid of their past more than of anything else that wont happen.
This post was last modified: January 16th 2013 01:50 AM by Sordak
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Post #23971
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(January 15th 2013 07:36 PM)MargieArgie Wrote:  Uhhh.. I don't know where you got that map, but Dawnstar's hold is called "The Pale" in the English-language version of Skyrim too.

Now that you say..yes, I think this was translated from russian version to english.

In german it´s Pale, too, in Russian it´s "White Shore" (in russian language and kyrillian font)

However, the german word for pale is "bleich" or "fahl". If I was to translate "The Pale" I would translate it to "Das Fähl". It´s sounds even pretty similar with the a-mutation.


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

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Hentmereb
Post #23975
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Well,guys,it's called The Pale or "White Shore" because it's all snow there,when I was there in Skyrim,I don't think it had any green land,except the trees a little. More detail about The Pale here:http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pale
EDIT-You can see all the details about where the name came from and why in the Trivia.
This post was last modified: January 16th 2013 05:29 AM by Ulfgar the Fearless


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Hentmereb
Post #24011
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Thats why I prefer all games completly in english, except for those, that are from german developers like Gothic or Drakensang.

Have anyone seen Oblivion with german texts? Tri-facepalm!
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Post #24137
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Fascinating topic. Thanks for sharing. I've translated various materials at work in the past, and the intricacies of nuance in other languages are so deep. It was always a challenge to find new ones -- and make sure they aren't affecting the end product.


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Post #24201
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When I was in Europe this summer, I saw (though I already knew) the population was very good with English compared to how we are with other languages. Translation I'd think would be welcome by most - though they could do fine without it.


Here lies a toppled god;
his fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal -
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Post #24260
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(January 16th 2013 09:35 PM)Reichmar12 Wrote:  Fascinating topic. Thanks for sharing. I've translated various materials at work in the past, and the intricacies of nuance in other languages are so deep. It was always a challenge to find new ones -- and make sure they aren't affecting the end product.

That´s sounds like a fascinating job. Which languages do you translate? I´ve heard you speak Portoguese.


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

Like Reply
Post #24296
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(January 17th 2013 02:52 PM)Immermnemion Wrote:  When I was in Europe this summer, I saw (though I already knew) the population was very good with English compared to how we are with other languages. Translation I'd think would be welcome by most - though they could do fine without it.

That's mostly because it's only the larger countries that have everything translated, like the French, Spanish and German speaking countries. Being from Norway myself I grew up having 80% of TV shows and 99% of games in English.

Anyway, I also speak German and to me I don't find those translations all that bad, it might take away some of the feeling, but that's probably just because I'm used to the English names. Maybe that's the reason for the outrage when they first translate those things as well? Because people are used to the English names, and when translated to German it becomes weird for them, players that are not used to the English names might not find it as strange when they start playing.
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Post #24301
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(January 18th 2013 06:45 AM)Sponx Wrote:  
(January 17th 2013 02:52 PM)Immermnemion Wrote:  When I was in Europe this summer, I saw (though I already knew) the population was very good with English compared to how we are with other languages. Translation I'd think would be welcome by most - though they could do fine without it.

That's mostly because it's only the larger countries that have everything translated, like the French, Spanish and German speaking countries. Being from Norway myself I grew up having 80% of TV shows and 99% of games in English.

Anyway, I also speak German and to me I don't find those translations all that bad, it might take away some of the feeling, but that's probably just because I'm used to the English names. Maybe that's the reason for the outrage when they first translate those things as well? Because people are used to the English names, and when translated to German it becomes weird for them, players that are not used to the English names might not find it as strange when they start playing.

80 % television in english D: can´t imagine that. But on the other hand you will be a good english speaker after some time ;)

I only heard stories that there was a time when "Sesam Street" was broadcasted in english long age.
Nowadays only some...some shows on MTV or VIVA are in english - with german subtitles.
This post was last modified: January 18th 2013 07:42 AM by Idriar


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

Like Reply




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