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Impact of stats on classes?


Started by Choral
Post #11734
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I wonder how the Health / Magicka / Stamina thing will affect the classes. In the single player games it was never really a problem, at a certain point you just had enough Health, Magicka and Stamina (in any combination) to outlast any mob(s) you encountered, whatever your playstyle. However, when encountering actual PCs in TESO, this will start to matter much more. Of course, we can pop potions, but they have a cool-down. I'm just fearing the hybrids will have a tough time in TESO and it will in the end pan out to the trinity once again, because a warrior putting his 49 points (assuming one point per level? 1-50, first point at level 2) into health and stamina will perhaps just last longer than a hybrid. And with 49 points, which is not much, any difference can be a big difference. Of course, nobody will actually do it as standard as this, but allow me the most ridiculously standard division:
Warrior: 25 points Health, 24 points Stamina.
Hybrid: 17 points Health, 16 points Stamina, 16 points Magicka.

Of course, the hybrid would be able to use restoration perhaps to make up for this, but that is actually just stalling. The time it takes to cast the restoration would never make up for the loss in Health points since during the time the hybrid is casting, he would probably also be receiving damage.

Thoughts?

Remember: this is just a fear I have, I hope to whatever-deity-you-want it will be different.

Possible critiques, just to get them out of the way so we can stay on topic (and perhaps also elucidating my point):

- not everyone will do pvp.
True, but with custom designed end-game content it can be the same case. If content is designed for lvl 50 characters, I do not expect it will suffice for a warrior to "run out of combat, change gear, pick up a healing staff and start healing." (source: http://acolytesguild.wordpress.com/2012/...-preview/, Question 10). The healer will have focused on magicka, the warrior probably not. Not enough magicka = not enough heals.

- hybrids are viable when in group.
True, but again, not talking about this. Just considering basic match-ups. There will be a time when you will be forced to rely on your own vs. an enemy PC or NPC. Versus an NPC I will still grant you the advantage, versus a PC perhaps not so much. Although I have played hybrids and have kicked "pure" character's asses, I still think it will be different here. And I have also got my ass kicked by "pure" characters as well when playing a hybrid. That brings me to another point of critique:

- it all depends on skill.
Go away.

There are bound to be more critiques and they are welcome, as long as they contribute to the discussion topic: the impact of stat point allocation on classes/builds and my fear that TESO will end up with a trinity (being Mage, Warrior, Rogue/Ranger).
This post was last modified: November 23rd 2012 08:37 AM by Choral
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Post #11737
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yeah if you ask me. a respecc option is a must. as a player who will definitly get into high level pvp, i dont want to be hampered because i thought going all stamina was a smart idea (thats how i do it in skyrim and it works)
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Post #11739
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I honestly hadn't even considered the respec option, since in the single player games it wouldn't matter: I could be a heavy armoured claymore wielding skeleton summoning fire-ball casting sneaking archer badass, and I would excell at all of these skills with enough magicka, health and stamina to vanquish everything in my path.

Indeed, respec will probably have to do the trick. But it feels so lame to have respec in an Elder Scrolls game. Feels totally not-TES-like.
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Post #11740
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(November 23rd 2012 08:46 AM)Choral Wrote:  I honestly hadn't even considered the respec option, since in the single player games it wouldn't matter: I could be a heavy armoured claymore wielding skeleton summoning fire-ball casting sneaking archer badass, and I would excell at all of these skills with enough magicka, health and stamina to vanquish everything in my path.

Indeed, respec will probably have to do the trick. But it feels so lame to have respec in an Elder Scrolls game. Feels totally not-TES-like.

not-SPRPG-like, because there's no need for balance in an SPRPG, and everyone can be god-like, not the same in an MMO
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Post #11741
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(November 23rd 2012 08:54 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  not-SPRPG-like, because there's no need for balance in an SPRPG, and everyone can be god-like, not the same in an MMO

True. Could this mean that in our own adventures in our cozy little protected faction lands and dungeons hybrids are viable, but when considering Cyrodill, one perhaps will have to respec?

I don't like this option either. Could we really be pushed into a trinity for PvP ? Are there no alternatives (I am not considering weakening yourself by not respeccing an alternative -- purely hypothetical speaking).
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Post #11742
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(November 23rd 2012 08:58 AM)Choral Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 08:54 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  not-SPRPG-like, because there's no need for balance in an SPRPG, and everyone can be god-like, not the same in an MMO

True. Could this mean that in our own adventures in our cozy little protected faction lands and dungeons hybrids are viable, but when considering Cyrodill, one perhaps will have to respec?

I don't like this option either. Could we really be pushed into a trinity for PvP ? Are there no alternatives (I am not considering weakening yourself by not respeccing an alternative -- purely hypothetical speaking).

I'm sure whatever you choose will be viable for PvE (it is PvE afterall). But, if you want to also PvP, just choose what spec you like best for PvP, and I'm sure that'll work for PvE as well... You can also switch your weapons/armor, as well as your hotbar skills, basically making two or more completely different toons.
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Post #11744
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(November 23rd 2012 09:06 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 08:58 AM)Choral Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 08:54 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  not-SPRPG-like, because there's no need for balance in an SPRPG, and everyone can be god-like, not the same in an MMO

True. Could this mean that in our own adventures in our cozy little protected faction lands and dungeons hybrids are viable, but when considering Cyrodill, one perhaps will have to respec?

I don't like this option either. Could we really be pushed into a trinity for PvP ? Are there no alternatives (I am not considering weakening yourself by not respeccing an alternative -- purely hypothetical speaking).

I'm sure whatever you choose will be viable for PvE (it is PvE afterall). But, if you want to also PvP, just choose what spec you like best for PvP, and I'm sure that'll work for PvE as well... You can also switch your weapons/armor, as well as your hotbar skills, basically making two or more completely different toons.

What do you mean "pushed into a trinity", Choral?

If you're talking DPS/Healer/Tank...that's in the game already.

There will obviously be more efficient set ups for particular builds as well as more efficient builds themselves.

Granted, this doesn't mean that you can't be creative and make unique builds. THere will certainly be plenty of those in this game.


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Post #11746
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(November 23rd 2012 09:56 AM)Reichmar12 Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 09:06 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 08:58 AM)Choral Wrote:  
(November 23rd 2012 08:54 AM)Qallidex Wrote:  not-SPRPG-like, because there's no need for balance in an SPRPG, and everyone can be god-like, not the same in an MMO

True. Could this mean that in our own adventures in our cozy little protected faction lands and dungeons hybrids are viable, but when considering Cyrodill, one perhaps will have to respec?

I don't like this option either. Could we really be pushed into a trinity for PvP ? Are there no alternatives (I am not considering weakening yourself by not respeccing an alternative -- purely hypothetical speaking).

I'm sure whatever you choose will be viable for PvE (it is PvE afterall). But, if you want to also PvP, just choose what spec you like best for PvP, and I'm sure that'll work for PvE as well... You can also switch your weapons/armor, as well as your hotbar skills, basically making two or more completely different toons.

What do you mean "pushed into a trinity", Choral?

If you're talking DPS/Healer/Tank...that's in the game already.

There will obviously be more efficient set ups for particular builds as well as more efficient builds themselves.

Granted, this doesn't mean that you can't be creative and make unique builds. THere will certainly be plenty of those in this game.

Not really sure why you quoted me there, but OK.
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Post #11967
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(November 23rd 2012 08:37 AM)Choral Wrote:  I wonder how the Health / Magicka / Stamina thing will affect the classes. In the single player games it was never really a problem, at a certain point you just had enough Health, Magicka and Stamina (in any combination) to outlast any mob(s) you encountered, whatever your playstyle. However, when encountering actual PCs in TESO, this will start to matter much more. Of course, we can pop potions, but they have a cool-down. I'm just fearing the hybrids will have a tough time in TESO and it will in the end pan out to the trinity once again, because a warrior putting his 49 points (assuming one point per level? 1-50, first point at level 2) into health and stamina will perhaps just last longer than a hybrid. And with 49 points, which is not much, any difference can be a big difference. Of course, nobody will actually do it as standard as this, but allow me the most ridiculously standard division:
Warrior: 25 points Health, 24 points Stamina.
Hybrid: 17 points Health, 16 points Stamina, 16 points Magicka.

Of course, the hybrid would be able to use restoration perhaps to make up for this, but that is actually just stalling. The time it takes to cast the restoration would never make up for the loss in Health points since during the time the hybrid is casting, he would probably also be receiving damage.

Thoughts?

Remember: this is just a fear I have, I hope to whatever-deity-you-want it will be different.

Possible critiques, just to get them out of the way so we can stay on topic (and perhaps also elucidating my point):

- not everyone will do pvp.
True, but with custom designed end-game content it can be the same case. If content is designed for lvl 50 characters, I do not expect it will suffice for a warrior to "run out of combat, change gear, pick up a healing staff and start healing." (source: http://acolytesguild.wordpress.com/2012/...-preview/, Question 10). The healer will have focused on magicka, the warrior probably not. Not enough magicka = not enough heals.

- hybrids are viable when in group.
True, but again, not talking about this. Just considering basic match-ups. There will be a time when you will be forced to rely on your own vs. an enemy PC or NPC. Versus an NPC I will still grant you the advantage, versus a PC perhaps not so much. Although I have played hybrids and have kicked "pure" character's asses, I still think it will be different here. And I have also got my ass kicked by "pure" characters as well when playing a hybrid. That brings me to another point of critique:

- it all depends on skill.
Go away.

There are bound to be more critiques and they are welcome, as long as they contribute to the discussion topic: the impact of stat point allocation on classes/builds and my fear that TESO will end up with a trinity (being Mage, Warrior, Rogue/Ranger).

I don't think there is going to be much variation in classes as we all think. What I mean by this is, you pick your alliance, you pick your race and then finaly you pick your class. Classes include; Fighter, Mage, Archer, Healer.

Now within each class you have tree's (branches) that you can specialize in, for example the fighter class, can go tank, DPS and support. These classes will give you more options/skills to unlock. So being a fighter tank wearing heavy armor will untimely give you more options and possibly be better than a mage (having less options) in heavy armor.

So in regards of being a fighter that uses magika fire spells (from what I have read and my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) will not be allowed.

However you can be a mage that uses heavy armor and as you use heavy armor you will gain XP towards it and could very well unlock passive/abilities. Same goes for weapons.

For fighters, sure you can use cloth armor and it could very well give you bonuses to stamina/magika regen rates. But in the end will not be as good as the fighter in heavy armor with more options/skills to unlock and get better at.

Its hard to say this early if any of the fighters abilities will use magika at this time... but time will tell.

I hope this isn't too confusing I tried to explain it the best way I know how. Sick


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Post #12068
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(November 24th 2012 09:37 AM)Riptose Wrote:  I don't think there is going to be much variation in classes as we all think. What I mean by this is, you pick your alliance, you pick your race and then finaly you pick your class. Classes include; Fighter, Mage, Archer, Healer.

Now within each class you have tree's (branches) that you can specialize in, for example the fighter class, can go tank, DPS and support. These classes will give you more options/skills to unlock. So being a fighter tank wearing heavy armor will untimely give you more options and possibly be better than a mage (having less options) in heavy armor.

I do not believe that this is how it will be at all. They already released two classes (Templar and Dragon Knight). The first is a support paladin-like hybrid and the second was described as more tank-like. So the classes are going to be a mix (at least i'm hoping) not just the standard tank/dps/healer ones.
In regards to the "Tree's" you talked about, I recently posted that I read from Paul Sage that they are confirmed, however I do not believe, from what I read/heard, that they will be as clear cut Tank/DPS/Support.

--Edit--
Found the article. For what I was referring to, watch this video. 6:12 specifically talks about the class "lines".

(November 24th 2012 09:37 AM)Riptose Wrote:  So in regards of being a fighter that uses magika fire spells (from what I have read and my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) will not be allowed.

This is wrong, any class can use any skill. However, in order to use magic skills successfully, you will need to invest in Magika, something that tanks may not want to do.

(November 24th 2012 09:37 AM)Riptose Wrote:  Its hard to say this early if any of the fighters abilities will use magika at this time... but time will tell.

I believe that in the aforementioned article/video that some Templar skills use Magika.
This post was last modified: November 24th 2012 02:55 PM by Archmage Rythis


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Post #12077
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pretty much what the above poster stated, in fact it seems all of the fighters active abilities seem to cost mana, while stamina is reserved for the more basic concepts that are not activateable skill (such as sneaking, running, blocking etc.)

this is actually, while a bit lore breaking, a good thing. It makes taking Magicka on a Warrior a valid choice. In TESO if you want to be a stun machine for example, you might want to roll for a magicka build. you might even go as a sword and board warrior wearing a mage robe, just so you can perma stunlock an enemy. i can see this beeing a valid tactic, and i could realy see this as a nice flavor class for a dunmer.
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Post #12083
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(November 23rd 2012 08:42 AM)Sordak Wrote:  yeah if you ask me. a respecc option is a must. as a player who will definitly get into high level pvp, i dont want to be hampered because i thought going all stamina was a smart idea (thats how i do it in skyrim and it works)

(November 23rd 2012 08:46 AM)Choral Wrote:  I honestly hadn't even considered the respec option, since in the single player games it wouldn't matter: I could be a heavy armoured claymore wielding skeleton summoning fire-ball casting sneaking archer badass, and I would excell at all of these skills with enough magicka, health and stamina to vanquish everything in my path.

Indeed, respec will probably have to do the trick. But it feels so lame to have respec in an Elder Scrolls game. Feels totally not-TES-like.





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Post #12127
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(November 24th 2012 03:30 PM)Sordak Wrote:  pretty much what the above poster stated, in fact it seems all of the fighters active abilities seem to cost mana, while stamina is reserved for the more basic concepts that are not activateable skill (such as sneaking, running, blocking etc.)

this is actually, while a bit lore breaking, a good thing. It makes taking Magicka on a Warrior a valid choice. In TESO if you want to be a stun machine for example, you might want to roll for a magicka build. you might even go as a sword and board warrior wearing a mage robe, just so you can perma stunlock an enemy. i can see this beeing a valid tactic, and i could realy see this as a nice flavor class for a dunmer.

You never know it might be only a few abilities use magic. All we know for sure is there will be classes. And you will naturally learn spells/abilities as you progress through the levels.


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Post #12140
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Quote:I don't think there is going to be much variation in classes as we all think. What I mean by this is, you pick your alliance, you pick your race and then finaly you pick your class. Classes include; Fighter, Mage, Archer, Healer.

Now within each class you have tree's (branches) that you can specialize in, for example the fighter class, can go tank, DPS and support. These classes will give you more options/skills to unlock. So being a fighter tank wearing heavy armor will untimely give you more options and possibly be better than a mage (having less options) in heavy armor.

So in regards of being a fighter that uses magika fire spells (from what I have read and my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) will not be allowed.

However you can be a mage that uses heavy armor and as you use heavy armor you will gain XP towards it and could very well unlock passive/abilities. Same goes for weapons.

For fighters, sure you can use cloth armor and it could very well give you bonuses to stamina/magika regen rates. But in the end will not be as good as the fighter in heavy armor with more options/skills to unlock and get better at.

Its hard to say this early if any of the fighters abilities will use magika at this time... but time will tell.

I hope this isn't too confusing I tried to explain it the best way I know how. Sick

I also heard of something like a Nightblade or something along those lines.
There will be different types of classes I doubt it will be the straight fighter, mage, and other traditional classes.
This post was last modified: November 25th 2012 09:08 AM by Kyroh
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Post #12181
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(November 24th 2012 07:16 PM)Almerish Wrote:  
(November 24th 2012 03:30 PM)Sordak Wrote:  pretty much what the above poster stated, in fact it seems all of the fighters active abilities seem to cost mana, while stamina is reserved for the more basic concepts that are not activateable skill (such as sneaking, running, blocking etc.)

this is actually, while a bit lore breaking, a good thing. It makes taking Magicka on a Warrior a valid choice. In TESO if you want to be a stun machine for example, you might want to roll for a magicka build. you might even go as a sword and board warrior wearing a mage robe, just so you can perma stunlock an enemy. i can see this beeing a valid tactic, and i could realy see this as a nice flavor class for a dunmer.

You never know it might be only a few abilities use magic. All we know for sure is there will be classes. And you will naturally learn spells/abilities as you progress through the levels.

nothing hints there so far. yess it COULD be the case,but its HIGHLY unlikeley. and this is the problem i have with making arguments like this: it hints that it actually WILL BE LIKE THAT as you would have any prove for it, but you dont. youre just making a claim, thats probably wrong considering all the information we got so far.
As it stands there is only one ability that was mentioned that doesnt cost mana.
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