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Non-Instanced Dungeons


Started by Tecca
Post #15
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I'm excited to hear that TESO will be having non-instanced dungeons. The fact that I can go through a given area and find someone trying to accomplish the same goal as me sounds like a good way to find a new buddy. Also the fact that the world in general will feel much livelier is something that I look forward to.

I'm not against instanced dungeons, but I think I prefer this approach much more. What do you think? Do you prefer instanced or non-instanced areas?


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Post #18
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There's something to be said for both types. When I decide to do something with some friends, an instanced dungeon might be the better choice. But when I'm exploring on my own, I want to see a living and immersive world with people to meet everywhere I go.
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Hellion
Post #22
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True. I normally go solo in MMOs for the first little while, which is why I think I appreciate non-instanced so much. But having a group of friends or a clan to go into instanced dungeons is very appealing. But that normally doesn't happen for me until I actually meet some good people to group with - I don't have friends that I hop around with in MMOs anymore.


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Post #36
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I'll remain undecided until I see how ZOS implements the system. As a person who has played older generation MMOs like SWG, public dungeons are not a new feature to me.

The pros:
-They are unpredictable
-Great socializing environment
-Makes the world seem seamless and organic

The cons:
-Spawn camping can arise for rare loot
-Competing for spawns with other groups
-Miss the fun if players clear it before you have a chance to experience it

Now ZOS has already said that players, grouped or not, will all receive credit for killing mobs. So in that regard, they are definitely encouraging friendly behavior and socializing. With the way the AI also works in combat, it will be interesting to see less tank and spank and more strategic battles where entire rooms of mobs gather and work together to defeat players.

I'm also hoping most, if not all of these public dungeons really require group efforts as community-building will be essential and pivotal to this game's success. Instanced dungeons and phasing will be better suited for a more guided and solo experience in my opinion. I am optimistic though as I have seen the benefits public dungeons can bring to an MMO, but ZOS needs to approach this cautiously and consider all the drawbacks.
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Post #40
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Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

I agree with Redguard King.

To me whats best about public Dungeons is the social aspect they have to them.
In GW2 they dont have many of them but the dynamic events get quite close. Especialy if you can heal everyone you just have a more social expirience.

and to me that is what an MMORPG should be. Not Questing alone, but actually fighting against a hostile world with many other Players.
This is something i hope TESO nails down. WoW did not, it did kinda feel like that if you had a group of friends, but in Guild Wars 2 for example, i get this alot. I dont know if this will stay once the dynamic events will get old. But so far it delivers this kind of expirience. Especialy if you take back an overrun town with the help of other Players that feels pretty cool.

Also what i liked was that, if you see a dead player somewhere, just rezz him. Every class can do it, wich is btw something id like to see in TESO, not mid combat rezz, but something along the lines of what GW2 does, it takes alot of time but it just makes for a more social expirience.

The introduction of Public Dungeons might be the first step to a true social expirience, where you are not fighting against your fellow Faction members but with them.
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Post #59
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Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
The unpredictable factor of a non-instanced dungeon is what makes it worth !
Yes, it could be desperating to see some camper stealing your rare item... but if that player is a thief... that should be the way!
Its in your abilities to stop him and recover the item (if that is the case )
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Post #60
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This will not be an issue in TESO anyway. As you will get the loot even if someone else is "stealing" the kill.

Fhynrood i once again doubt youve played alot of MMORPGs. Yess this makes sens ein TES, but stealing stuff from people in an MMORPG envirement is just a scumbaggy and realy annoying thing. Especialy since in an MMORPG you tend to have to work for a realy good item alot more than lets say in Skyrim.
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Post #64
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Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
You are righ Sordak (we meet again haha), I have not played many MMORPG´s . The only ones I played was Diablo 2 (in that one ... you can steal anything... it was really a FFA party game... most a MMO not a RPG) and Lineage II ... wich I used to really hate (in that one there were so full of thieves too ). So I can say my experiences were not good. I also watched some friends playing WoW ... and that one just sucks so I never tried it.
Most of my experience is on SP RPG´s .

But, in certain circumstances it would make the thief class worth playing... if you cant steal, the thief will just be useless.
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Post #80
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I support instanced dungeons more than I support public ones. The reason is more of a technical consideration than anything else. In a private dungeon, you don't have to worry about spawn camping. You also don't have to worry about another group of players bouncing around like idiots right in the middle of your huddle time.

The problem with private dungeons is getting a group together and reforming it when someone has to leave for whatever reason. In non-instanced dungeons, group formation tends to be more organic and natural.

If they could streamline the ability to form and maintain a group while doing a dungeon, in such a way that coming together just feels natural, and keep the experience geared towards a single group so nobody else can influence things ahead of you, it would be a good thing

There are pros and cons to both type of mechanics. I just know I have had worse experiences with open dungeons than I have with instanced dungeons in other MMOs.

I'm not sure how ZOS will be handling the spawn camping and disruptive player issues. Both of these sorts of things are more suitably handled by a player community that polices itself. It's a behavioral issue not a systemic one.
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Post #86
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Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

Well GBJackson i have to agree with your points but at least to the first one, nameley a bunch of people ruining your expirience by beeing sutpid can easily be countered by just making the public dungeon REALY hard.

And to me this is a major thing, one thing i realy liked about the first GW2 beta event was that it was pretty hard, they eventually toned it down a bit, especialy the public dungeons scaled with the number of players, so in that big ass beta event it was just a huge battlefield inside a little cave. And eventually a huge Charr Shaman would spawn that could kill a player in seconds if nobody was helping him, basically everyone was FORCED to play seriously.
and this is the best way of doing things. Of course it sounds scumbaggy to think of Players as Idiots that ruin your game, but chances are they are. In a single Player TES more than a few people just play it to break the game (the alchemy exploit from morrowind springs to mind, or the smithing one from skyrim)
In an MMORPG just force them. This is another step they have to take and another risk they have to take. MAKE IT HARD.

What kinda ruins most combat expiriences in MMORPGs is that most trashmobs are just well trash. They are just a delay and not a fight. Something Matt Firor said actually made me a bit enthusiastic. He said you cannot pull single Enemies. MMO fans got upset. wich i love because, from my time playing WoW i did grow to absoluteley hate MMORPG fans.
It has to do with them thinking the trinity is actually "tactics" but im getting derailed here.
My point is that with this, you get less "trashmobs" and the dev team can actually focus on tayloring the enemy encounters in such a way that every single enemy in the Dungeon is a genuine threat to the Players.

If you ever played Dark Souls you know exactly what i mean.


Regarding thieves that cant steal: well i liked the Idea guild wars had. a Thief can steal an item from an enemy, its not a real item tho, depending on what enemy it is (as in human, monkey dude, ice giant and so on) it would give him an improvised weapon. Like you can steal feathers from a bird and then use it to blind an enemy. Or a bottle from a human and then throw it at people.
It has a nice feel to it.
But of course it is very different from how thieves work in TES (as in, staying hidden all the time, instead of going for the "fragile speedster" trope)
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Post #410
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THis is the feature I am most excited about.
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