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Player and Mob collision detection


Started by Elember
Post #23296
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If you watch the introduction video very closely, when the players are jumping into the water it really does look like the players that are already in the water are getting pushed out of the way.

Also with the boss fight where that multi-legged spider thing comes out of the portal in that wilderness area if you watch closely it looks like at least two and maybe three times the mob advances towards the player and the player gets pushed back.

It really does look like mob and player collision detection is in the game, what do you all think?

Personally I think this is really good news because there is nothing more immersion breaking then being able to pass through the tank to get to the healer...
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Post #23299
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The idea of collision detection has been around in MMOs for the longest time, but it never works or can never be implemented properly.

The issue always arise when you put this idea in heavily populated areas, imagine trying to move around crowded streets of a major city, or fighting in a choke point with a zerg and you being Melee and stuck at the back of the zerg, you yourself will be blocked completely out of the action.


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Post #23315
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Yea I agree with Garbrac it cant work. Also you'll have assholes with will say block an entrance or exit to something or block a vendor or mail box.

GW2 had melee assist where you couldn't run through your current target. Also they allowed the option to turn it off which majority of ppl did.
This post was last modified: January 12th 2013 02:51 PM by Artarius Aetius


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Post #23317
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Oh I vehemently disagree with you both. Collision is wonderful in PvP and the issues you both presented about major cities are fixable with wide streets or collision being turned off. It worked just fine in Warhammer and really brought siege pvp to a new level. Collision in PvP allows for tanks to form walls -- a critical component of the RvR in Warhammer. It gives defensive players a set role and purpose besides buffing healers, and allows for very fun PvP encounters.

Think of a row of tanks making a last stand behind a gate that you just broke down. Or think of tanks trying to block people from crossing a bridge. This is a part of strategy that can be implemented, and should be implemented in my opinion.


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Post #23326
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Also think of how the AI can block you in PvE this will make even PvE a lot more interesting and dynamic then if there is no collision detection. However if you watch the video it seems pretty obvious to me that it is in the game in both PvE and PvP, though if you watch at the end where there are tons of players attacking the keep it appears if someone is in your own faction CD is turned off because you see players passing through each other that appear to be on the same side.

What we really need is for someone who attended the hands on to comment on this because it would be pretty obvious if CD was in or not if you have played the game.
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Post #23354
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(January 12th 2013 03:06 PM)Reichmar12 Wrote:  Oh I vehemently disagree with you both. Collision is wonderful in PvP and the issues you both presented about major cities are fixable with wide streets or collision being turned off. It worked just fine in Warhammer and really brought siege pvp to a new level. Collision in PvP allows for tanks to form walls -- a critical component of the RvR in Warhammer. It gives defensive players a set role and purpose besides buffing healers, and allows for very fun PvP encounters.

Think of a row of tanks making a last stand behind a gate that you just broke down. Or think of tanks trying to block people from crossing a bridge. This is a part of strategy that can be implemented, and should be implemented in my opinion.

If this is the case expect a lot of hardcore guilds to take advantage of this and be unstoppable. A group of 20 people speced for defense/healing will easily take down a 40 man zerg. Along with being able to secure a chokepoint. They'll be too hard to kill epescially with healers. Yes you are going to fall dead when you have 5+ ppl hitting you for melee dmg. If you've heard of the melee train tactic in GW2, you'll know what I mean.

just watch this video and you'll see what I'm talking about.
They're all speced healing/defense (15 of them)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0C7XdnY73A


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Post #23356
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(January 12th 2013 09:01 PM)Artarius Aetius Wrote:  
(January 12th 2013 03:06 PM)Reichmar12 Wrote:  Oh I vehemently disagree with you both. Collision is wonderful in PvP and the issues you both presented about major cities are fixable with wide streets or collision being turned off. It worked just fine in Warhammer and really brought siege pvp to a new level. Collision in PvP allows for tanks to form walls -- a critical component of the RvR in Warhammer. It gives defensive players a set role and purpose besides buffing healers, and allows for very fun PvP encounters.

Think of a row of tanks making a last stand behind a gate that you just broke down. Or think of tanks trying to block people from crossing a bridge. This is a part of strategy that can be implemented, and should be implemented in my opinion.

If this is the case expect a lot of hardcore guilds to take advantage of this and be unstoppable. A group of 20 people speced for defense/healing will easily take down a 40 man zerg. Along with being able to secure a chokepoint. They'll be too hard to kill epescially with healers. Yes you are going to fall dead when you have 5+ ppl hitting you for melee dmg. If you've heard of the melee train tactic in GW2, you'll know what I mean.

just watch this video and you'll see what I'm talking about.
They're all speced healing/defense (15 of them)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0C7XdnY73A

I've seen that before, and yes, it allows for guilds to perform well. Melee trains aren't new at all, though. They were quite effective in WAR. In fact a tactic I used quite often was to let the enemy inside the keep we were defending, leave a tank wall guarding the door to the NPC keep lord's room (inside obviously) with some healers, and take a melee train out the back door and around them. It was a pretty solid flanking tactic; when the train hit the ranged and casters from behind, the melee beating on the door would turn to engage us, and the tank wall group would push out the door and sandwich people in.

That doesn't prevent others from doing the same thing though. In fact, most people were using similar tactics (because they work) which caused sieges to last longer as attackers were more conservative in their efforts to break down a keep door. They'd keep tanks and melee with the casters and only hit the doors with ranged, siege weapons and rams.

It really isn't anything to fear. Everyone catches on eventually. You also need to remember that GW2 put you against new people all the time. RvR games like ESO, WAR and DAoC don't work that way. You'll learn who just raped you, and you'll take notes. If you aren't dumb, you won't fall for it again :-)

And you can use this knowledge to your advantage on a political level too if you're fighting alonside a guild or group you really don't like. Don't warn them. Don't compensate for their ignorance of the tactic that you know is coming. Pack your horse, and ride away.

Its a dick move, I know. But its also what makes 3 faction games so sweet.


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Post #24002
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(January 12th 2013 02:45 PM)Artarius Aetius Wrote:  Yea I agree with Garbrac it cant work. Also you'll have assholes with will say block an entrance or exit to something or block a vendor or mail box.

GW2 had melee assist where you couldn't run through your current target. Also they allowed the option to turn it off which majority of ppl did.

i never see mail box in ES series....
i think they should not add it. but they should add courier.


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Post #24043
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(January 12th 2013 09:01 PM)Artarius Aetius Wrote:  
(January 12th 2013 03:06 PM)Reichmar12 Wrote:  Oh I vehemently disagree with you both. Collision is wonderful in PvP and the issues you both presented about major cities are fixable with wide streets or collision being turned off. It worked just fine in Warhammer and really brought siege pvp to a new level. Collision in PvP allows for tanks to form walls -- a critical component of the RvR in Warhammer. It gives defensive players a set role and purpose besides buffing healers, and allows for very fun PvP encounters.

Think of a row of tanks making a last stand behind a gate that you just broke down. Or think of tanks trying to block people from crossing a bridge. This is a part of strategy that can be implemented, and should be implemented in my opinion.

If this is the case expect a lot of hardcore guilds to take advantage of this and be unstoppable. A group of 20 people speced for defense/healing will easily take down a 40 man zerg. Along with being able to secure a chokepoint. They'll be too hard to kill epescially with healers. Yes you are going to fall dead when you have 5+ ppl hitting you for melee dmg. If you've heard of the melee train tactic in GW2, you'll know what I mean.

just watch this video and you'll see what I'm talking about.
They're all speced healing/defense (15 of them)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0C7XdnY73A

thats a good thing. its called tactics.

hannibal won wars using exactly this tactic. Why would it be a bad thing?

a skilled developer can base mechanics that can counter tactics like this. such as knocnbacks, CC, teleportation, pull abilities. etc. its limited by your imagination alone.

i think if its implemented it will most likeley exist in the form that you have collision with enemies alone, not with allies. simmilar to GW2 if you have melee assist enabled.

clipping through enemies just makes dancing around way too easy.
and while melee trains like these can rape noobs in no time, in a proper competetive enviroment, itll just become the metagame. And people will know how to react accordingly. if its balanced within itself. wheres the bad thing in it?
This post was last modified: January 16th 2013 10:31 AM by Sordak
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Post #24049
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I think collision is great and would add a ton of tactics and immersion. I only worry about one thing: It would allow "pool's closed" style griefing, especially in doorways. Just think of all the times in Skyrim when you had a follower, ran into some small room, then needed to shove and jump your way out. Pretty annoying.

In this case I believe what Sordak mentioned, about not having collision with allies, is a necessity.
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Post #24051
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its how it is in most games that have it anyway. its probably the best implementation.
Its never good to give griefers a hand.
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Post #24062
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(January 16th 2013 10:42 AM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote:  I think collision is great and would add a ton of tactics and immersion. I only worry about one thing: It would allow "pool's closed" style griefing, especially in doorways. Just think of all the times in Skyrim when you had a follower, ran into some small room, then needed to shove and jump your way out. Pretty annoying.

In this case I believe what Sordak mentioned, about not having collision with allies, is a necessity.

All they really need to do is disable CD in the PvE part of the game except between mobs and the player to make that part of combat more interesting with AI able to use CD against the player, and the player also able to use that against the mobs to force more one on one if the player can manipulate choke points to their own advantage.

Of just allow the player to push past any other player/mob eventually, this mechanic would also work in PvP and two opposing players could push against each other but eventually be pushed aside from each other.
This post was last modified: January 16th 2013 11:36 AM by Elember
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Post #24067
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(January 16th 2013 11:33 AM)Elember Wrote:  
(January 16th 2013 10:42 AM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote:  I think collision is great and would add a ton of tactics and immersion. I only worry about one thing: It would allow "pool's closed" style griefing, especially in doorways. Just think of all the times in Skyrim when you had a follower, ran into some small room, then needed to shove and jump your way out. Pretty annoying.

In this case I believe what Sordak mentioned, about not having collision with allies, is a necessity.

All they really need to do is disable CD in the PvE part of the game except between mobs and the player to make that part of combat more interesting with AI able to use CD against the player, and the player also able to use that against the mobs to force more one on one if the player can manipulate choke points to their own advantage.

Of just allow the player to push past any other player/mob eventually, this mechanic would also work in PvP and two opposing players could push against each other but eventually be pushed aside from each other.

the even simpler solution is to just have it as: no collision with all friendly units. full collision with all enemy units.

that way it works both in PvP and outside PvE with an extremeley simple mechanic guiding it.
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Post #24126
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As a game developer myself, I'd like to comment that it's entirely possible to handle collisions on a unit-by-unit basis, and it's actually highly efficient that way.

I'd like to see collisions between all enemies and also party members.
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Post #62242
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(January 12th 2013 02:17 PM)Garbrac Wrote:  imagine trying to move around crowded streets of a major city,

it can very easily be turned off for cities, or if you're not in combat, like in WAR.

(January 12th 2013 02:17 PM)Garbrac Wrote:  or fighting in a choke point with a zerg and you being Melee and stuck at the back of the zerg, you yourself will be blocked completely out of the action.

that's the point.


plus it discourages zerging.

edit: yay got a level on necromancy school :P


(January 12th 2013 09:01 PM)Artarius Aetius Wrote:  A group of 20 people speced for defense/healing will easily take down a 40 man zerg. Along with being able to secure a chokepoint. They'll be too hard to kill epescially with healers.

again, that's the point. just cause its a brainless zerg doesnt mean it should steamroll everything on it's path. 300!

(January 12th 2013 09:01 PM)Artarius Aetius Wrote:  Yes you are going to fall dead when you have 5+ ppl hitting you for melee dmg. If you've heard of the melee train tactic in GW2, you'll know what I mean.

you're not making any sense now. collision detection would ->prevent<- "blobs" like in GW2, not encourage them.
This post was last modified: April 25th 2013 09:49 AM by Delavega86
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