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The Perfect MMO


Started by Bormir Dalgaard
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Since we have quite a while before The Elder Scrolls releases I was wondering what the TESOF community thought about the all elusive "Perfect MMO." What would you put into the game? Since we can't all be Lore Experts, Software Engineers, and masterminds behind all the mathematical formulas and mechanics that go into creating a masterpiece. I've got an idea in my head, but I am not an Everquest or Pre-Combat Update Star Wars Galaxies or original World of Warcraft veteran so I didn't see the beginning concepts of the MMO genre. As many of you know the difficulty of combining a single player world with a multiplayer world and trying tp make it seamless. One of the biggest issues I have with games is that everyone wants it to be realistic, but IMO I would rather have realistic graphics and an immersive story/gameplay with unrealistic craziness. Obviously I'm not saying that we should be able to jump around like a 12 year old on Halo spamming headshots from a sniper rifle with the kick of a pellet gun. Actually I have no idea what I'm saying... (Insert Willy Wonka's song Imagination here). Anyways, post your thoughts, comments, suggestions, insults, memes, and all other useful and internets here! So let your typings begin and proceed to throw tomatoes at my topic.



Onikmun of The Bromlokiir
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Post #4961
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Hey Bormir!

Somethings I'd consider as making the perfect mmo, apart from the obvious lack of lag, character balance, etc. would be:

- In-depth guild system with goals similar to Guild Wars 2 or World of Warcraft. It gives rewards to everyone for working together.
- Non-essential time wasters. Fishing in WoW, Pazaak or Swoop Racing (should have been in swtor...), Jumping Puzzles in Guild Wars 2. These can help pull people from boredom at times and guilds can form fun events and competitions around them when end game boredom sets in.
- That said, there should never be an end game boredom experience lol. [Hopeful that with the amount of exploration in TESO that this is reduced somewhat.]
- Community events ... and here comes the boss >.> that's it for now lol. I'm sure someone will add the things I would have added later!


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Jumping puzzles can be truly annoying. I haven't played GW2, but in SWTOR they became one thing that made me hesitant to bring up alts. Some of the datacrons were just abominably hard to get. I have nothing against jumping puzzles as such, but they need to be kept easy enough. More finding the correct way than doing the perfectly timed jump.

That said, non-annoying non-essential time wasters are something that I consider a must. Devs often don't take enough in factor such little things. I can't put well into words what's so neat in them, beyond that you have an option just to do... something else. A small sandbox touch, perhaps, a feeling that there's more to the world than quests, raids and grinding.

So, please add fishing, Zenimax devs; it might be a "WoW thing", but such a small thing makes a lot of people happy - not deliriously happy, but happy still. Leaving it out, concentrating on just the core of the game hasn't helped a single MMO.

The game world needs, to me, to feel alive. That there's something else going on beyond my own story. Few NPCs doing their own things here and there, down-to-earth quests that are connected to the daily lives of NPCs instead of the game's main story. Small touches can have great effect.

But in the end, what a "Perfect MMO" needs in my opinion is of course players and of the right kind - enough enthusiastic, socially engaging people that a community is created and sustained.
This post was last modified: October 31st 2012 02:56 PM by Hentmereb
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Post #5025
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in GW2 all the puzzles are optional.

When it comes to a perfect MMO. Well that would take a long time to explain. Basically a Sandbox with terrain manipulaiton, a good combat system. an open sci fantasy storyline and an emphasis on PvP. Something along those lines.
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(October 31st 2012 02:52 PM)Hentmereb Wrote:  Jumping puzzles can be truly annoying. I haven't played GW2, but in SWTOR they became one thing that made me hesitant to bring up alts. Some of the datacrons were just abominably hard to get. I have nothing against jumping puzzles as such, but they need to be kept easy enough. More finding the correct way than doing the perfectly timed jump.

That said, non-annoying non-essential time wasters are something that I consider a must. Devs often don't take enough in factor such little things. I can't put well into words what's so neat in them, beyond that you have an option just to do... something else. A small sandbox touch, perhaps, a feeling that there's more to the world than quests, raids and grinding.

So, please add fishing, Zenimax devs; it might be a "WoW thing", but such a small thing makes a lot of people happy - not deliriously happy, but happy still. Leaving it out, concentrating on just the core of the game hasn't helped a single MMO.

The game world needs, to me, to feel alive. That there's something else going on beyond my own story. Few NPCs doing their own things here and there, down-to-earth quests that are connected to the daily lives of NPCs instead of the game's main story. Small touches can have great effect.

But in the end, what a "Perfect MMO" needs in my opinion is of course players and of the right kind - enough enthusiastic, socially engaging people that a community is created and sustained.

What a lot of people didn't like in SWTOR but IMO was awesome was the game Huttball. I loved the fact that it wasn't just about defending something or killing something. Whose to say they didn't have sports besides racing speeders in Star Wars? I think Nord Rugby would be awesome... Won't happen but it would be a "lore" worthy sport considering the brute force nature of it. A rivalry between the Orcs and Nords would be sick especially in sports. Considering that history shows sports continued and that even war would stop during Christmas in WW2 shows a still respectable and gentlemanly way of conducting warfare, so why not add that into a game also?

As far as the open world/seamless experience it is almost impossible to do considering if you have the AI reacting to your choices then the whole world would be reacting to the first person who finished the quests. The storyline would progress and the world would change based on the first person's choices who felt they needed to finish the story in 2 days.

As far as Radiant AI goes Zenimax has already stated that it won't happen. Trying to put Radiant AI into the game with a Megaserver already puts tons of people on the game and not very many people will be able to run the high graphics capabilities without lagging with every step from their character.

I love the comments and suggestions! I'm just gathering info and trying to figure out a game that I would want to invest my money and time into. I played a lot of WoW just to find it an empty experience of raiding and PvP. The storyline sucked immensely compared to WC2 and WC3 (and it was the same story?!?!?!?). I know most gripes came from angry players who saw each expansion lower the bar on learning your character and basically became a spam war on hotkeys without really having to know your abilities. Everquest and EVE Online are still two of the hardest games out there on the MMO Market. Honestly though I don't want to go back to EQ graphics and I don't want to have to learn an entire game (EVE) that I really have no desire to delve that deep into. I was excited for the Warhammer 40k MMO that was supposed to come out because it was going to have that open world feel (or so they say) and I am a major 40k fan (Books and Video Games not tabletop). As I am a major fan of the TES series I am avidly watching this game with optimism that it will deliver what it says. I guess to me the "Perfect MMO" would be delivering everything they promised and delivering it when they promised at, as well as giving 100% for the fans who actively support the game since it was announced on top of doing all they can to give back to the fans who basically give all the money to fund these projects.

I salute ZOS for taking the heavy responsibility on their shoulders of trying to create the TES world into an MMO (especially with the fierce and crucial fan base they have to answer to if they fail). I believe Bethesda is helping ZOS more than they would like to tell people because this is their baby and everyone knows what a mother Cave Bear would do if you mess with it's cubs (even though they're not in game, you get what I mean). So I'm done with my rant. Keep the comments and suggestions coming!



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I still play Huttball and other PvP games in SWTOR; with a game like TESO the devs face a problem with these PvP -mini games (I've found conflicting claims whether TESO will feature them or not) as they could take people out of Cyrodiil RvR, yet many people seem nowadays expect them to be included in MMOs, both hardcore PvPers and also PvEers to whom they are a safe and voluntary mode of PvP.

In my opinion, Cyrodiil RvR should come first in the devs' decision making, as the game's long term future depends on it. If there are PvP minigames, then I think that they should be tied to Cyrodiil RvR; faction success in them would benefit RvR and taking personally part in succesful fort captures etc would bring bonus to PvP minigames for example.

I think that SWTOR should have had swoop racing and should add it; in fantasy MMOs the closest equivalent was the non-instanced horce racing track in LotRO. (I think it was connected to festival, I tried it just a few times.) Something like mount racing could be added in fantasy MMOs, but perhaps they belong to a time when a game has established itself and they can be brought in to bring an added flavour. On the other hand, people don't really give MMOs time to grow nowadays and expect them to offer a big bundle of different things to do at the beginning.

I'm a bit hesitant that the Imperial City itself will not be open at the beginning of the game; it's certainly would form a great patch or expansion material, but I fear whether players are ready to wait long for it. In today's MMO genre, many people lack patience, so I hope that the Imperial City will be added soon after launch. I just look back at WAR's other capital cities and feel a bit of worry, though. But, I'm sure that TESO devs know these things far better than I do. ;)
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(November 1st 2012 02:01 PM)Hentmereb Wrote:  I still play Huttball and other PvP games in SWTOR; with a game like TESO the devs face a problem with these PvP -mini games (I've found conflicting claims whether TESO will feature them or not) as they could take people out of Cyrodiil RvR, yet many people seem nowadays expect them to be included in MMOs, both hardcore PvPers and also PvEers to whom they are a safe and voluntary mode of PvP.

In my opinion, Cyrodiil RvR should come first in the devs' decision making, as the game's long term future depends on it. If there are PvP minigames, then I think that they should be tied to Cyrodiil RvR; faction success in them would benefit RvR and taking personally part in succesful fort captures etc would bring bonus to PvP minigames for example.

I think that SWTOR should have had swoop racing and should add it; in fantasy MMOs the closest equivalent was the non-instanced horce racing track in LotRO. (I think it was connected to festival, I tried it just a few times.) Something like mount racing could be added in fantasy MMOs, but perhaps they belong to a time when a game has established itself and they can be brought in to bring an added flavour. On the other hand, people don't really give MMOs time to grow nowadays and expect them to offer a big bundle of different things to do at the beginning.

I'm a bit hesitant that the Imperial City itself will not be open at the beginning of the game; it's certainly would form a great patch or expansion material, but I fear whether players are ready to wait long for it. In today's MMO genre, many people lack patience, so I hope that the Imperial City will be added soon after launch. I just look back at WAR's other capital cities and feel a bit of worry, though. But, I'm sure that TESO devs know these things far better than I do. ;)

I definitely wouldn't ask for mini-games at launch. I understand the pressure with deadlines, content, and listening to the fans. I would love it as a content thing though. I would be fine with it coming 3 months after launch. That's only because I'm a huge fan of TES though. I can see where new players would get pissy after 3 months and no content, but I'm not one to complain.

A TES game online is good enough for me as long as it doesn't sacrifice quality for cash grabbing deadlines.



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