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50+ & 50++ Game Modes


Started by Kilivin
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Introduction
The purpose of this is to bring discussion to the newer game modes beyond level 50.
What form of higher progression will we see?
How do you make 50+ & 50++ game modes seem worth doing?
What loot will we find?

These are only a few of the questions I'd like to address with this discussion. Enjoy & join in the discussion. Smiling

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Alternative Progression
The idea of alternative progress, while an attractive one, has had both good & bad executions throughout history. Sadly, there are probably more ways in which a method has failed with other games. If you are unfamiliar with this term, Alternative progression is something that a player achieves after their primary level cap is reached. After this is achieved, the player goes through a separate system which allows them to be given greater power & further define their avatar. Whether this be by skill cap being raised per alternative level, the ability to use greater items, which we will discuss later, or even by allowing players to further increase their 3 primary combat pools (health, magicka, & stamina) but at a lower rate per alternative level. They all serve a single purpose. What purpose is that? Well, for one it grants players to have that sense of progression in their character after the level cap. It is that sense of progression is crucial to any RPG. It also serves the purpose as stated above to further define who you are in the world.

You might be wondering, Can alternative progression be achieved in other ways besides stat boosts and better items?

Well, Extrapolating from the idea that ZOS had with books, by making our exploration into the world grant us some sort of higher unlocking of power it grants us an alternative progression from that progression already stated above. It might sound like I'm talking inception but not quite. The proposal is that the quests and exploration we do in the game grants us an unlock after completed. I would propose the idea of the Legend Skill Tree, which to clarify can only be achieved when you complete all the game modes, however that may be done. This legend tree would be yet another skill tree in which grant new abilities for your avatar. NOTE: This of course would have to be balanced in heavily as to not make completing all game modes crucial to do well in AvA, but give your player a slight edge to those who are identical to your skill in battle.

You might be thinking, All of these bonuses to players who do the 50+ & 50++ game modes are going to make them too difficult to face in PvP.

I agree with you, but such an unbalance in the game could easily be countered by the accumulated acquisition of Alliance Points by those who have done it from level 10. Without straying too far from the topic, such points could be put into powerful gear & even boosts to their stats. My hope is that no battle in AvA will be ever won by one man, which is why such an introduction to something like the Legend skill line, if well-balanced, would not be detrimental to fairness in AvA.

Items of Legend
One issue I have with level caps is that there are also item level caps that will never exceed that level. From this it gives the player the idea that "if you're lucky" you will be an unstoppable force. In truth, as much as finding that legendary sword is rewarding, it is stopped short with the amount of time it takes to achieve it, and as well as the small sense of accomplishment in being able to use it. After being level 50 for what could be 300 or more hours, the sense of accomplishment in reaching level 50 has usually gone. All that is left is the feeling of grief in knowing all that remains is the hours and hours you will spend grinding to find that legendary sword or that top tier set.

I propose a player doesn't have the grief of not finding such an item. My idea is very similar to Torchlight in that players are able to use an item based on their stats or skills instead of their level after level 50. I do not advise being able to use this system before the level cap due to alts becoming way more powerful than they should be. Only a system that allows players to find that legendary sword they always wanted much faster, but then required to do some form of alternative progression in order to be able to use that weapon.

I also don't advise in making this system cause players to feel forced by what they find. That if they find a legendary sword that they cannot use they feel they have to reach the requirements of that sword - even if it is against what they wanted to be. The drop rates of these higher leveled items must be just like items were before max level was reached.

You might be asking, What's the purpose in this system? The main purpose in this system is to allow players to have both the sense of accomplishment in obtaining this legendary sword as well as the joy one has in finding an awesome item such as this. It also serves the purpose of allowing the drop rates of said items to be increased so it doesn't become a grind to obtain epic loot. Instead, it re-introduces the system that you're already used to. That is, finding an amazing helmet at level 39 that is level 41 then holding on to it until you have achieved this level or until you have found a better helmet.

Master-Crafting
Being an avid person in crafting, I would also propose that crafting have progression beyond its limit as well. However, with this I would not propose repetition of crafting to increase its level. I introduce the idea of making your preferred craft your Master-Craft.

What is master-crafting? Basically, it allows players to achieve a form of advanced crafting that requires utmost knowledge and skill into that craft to achieve. Master-crafting is increased not by countless hours of crafting one item that increases it, but by the items of power you make. Such items will require all that the Master of his craft has achieved through his time at it. Items created will always be of legendary quality, meaning they are 50+.

What's the difference between crafting & master-crafting? Well, first off - progression is based upon how well the item you make is. Similarly to how a Gourmet has foods known throughout the land - your enchantments, armor, weapons, and potions must be of a quality that has achieved this level of art.

How do I make such items? You will need a lot of materials. It will also require a lot of trial & error. Instead of an item taking an hour to craft it could take anywhere from a day to a week to be able to perfect. This is due to the amount of materials required being higher because there is more trial & error involved. There is a light at the end of the tunnel though, Items are given a graded system when made so that the craftsman, as well as players using items from a master-craftsman, know how well their items are. The over-all end effect grants you a graded craftsman as your form of progression.

While the cliche "A-F" grading system shouldn't to be used, it is something I can go by. A grade A master-craftsman will be the ones that people will want to pay the big bucks for. There again, don't despair if you're a 'grade F.' This is a progression system after all, so you can only go up from the lowest level. However, just because you can't go backwards doesn't mean people will buy your poorly made items as a Grade B master-enchanter. Furthermore, you won't progress to the next grade unless you've shown that you are of that status by making enough higher grade items. Again, the cliche "A-F" grading system probably shouldn't be used as nobody will be happy hearing that someone is grade F. Not to mention only having 6 levels of progression in Master-crafting is fairly small if you ask me.

What perks do being a higher grade craftsman grant the player? For one, it grants the player a renown status. Such a renown will have people piling in to give you materials to craft better and better stuff to give them for more big ones. Furthermore, It allows you yourself to be able to make items for your character that are some of the strongest items in the entire game! What greater perk is there than power? Winking_grinning

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Conclusion
I feel these are only a few ideas that scratch the surface into what I personally would like to see with the 50+ & 50++ game modes. The purpose of these ideas is to start discussion as well as bring out some ideas that others have. So, go ahead and join in discussion on what you think of these ideas as well as posting some ideas of your own. Smiling


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While you have quite a few incredible ideas here I'd like to draw attention to one in particular and that's this "Master-Crafting" proposition. In many games I've played, maxing out a crafting level is both rewarding and depressing as there's never anywhere to go with it after the fact. Your idea brings a whole new tier to the system and I personally love it. These legendary items would be a way for players to truly pride themselves on achieving such a high secondary level. The only twinge in the back of my mind is having too many legendary weapon and armor smiths running around. It could start to feel a lot like other MMO's in regards to classes. You have all this sweet looking armor you worked so hard for but then the next guy in your class who comes along has the exact same set. It takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it and makes you feel a lot less special, even with this renowned status. Half the reason why we all love ESO is because it strays away from all of that. So I guess my point is... We don't want more than one Eorlund Gray-Mane around, because the man's steel is legendary.


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Kilivin
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(August 6th 2013, 08:34 PM)BlytheAlarynn Wrote: While you have quite a few incredible ideas here I'd like to draw attention to one in particular and that's this "Master-Crafting" proposition. In many games I've played, maxing out a crafting level is both rewarding and depressing as there's never anywhere to go with it after the fact. Your idea brings a whole new tier to the system and I personally love it. These legendary items would be a way for players to truly pride themselves on achieving such a high secondary level. The only twinge in the back of my mind is having too many legendary weapon and armor smiths running around. It could start to feel a lot like other MMO's in regards to classes. You have all this sweet looking armor you worked so hard for but then the next guy in your class who comes along has the exact same set. It takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it and makes you feel a lot less special, even with this renowned status. Half the reason why we all love ESO is because it strays away from all of that. So I guess my point is... We don't want more than one Eorlund Gray-Mane around, because the man's steel is legendary.

Haha, yeah I can understand this. My hope lies with what ZOS has presented us already in crafting. That is, being granted the option to learn different crafting styles and such. Hopefully this is extensive enough to where we don't see the same items being repeatably crafted in at any level of crafting. However, that is up to ZOS - I merely am giving ideas in which one can continue his craft of these items of power. Smiling


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(August 5th 2013, 05:21 PM)Kilivin Wrote: Items of Legend
One issue I have with level caps is that there are also item level caps that will never exceed that level. From this it gives the player the idea that "if you're lucky" you will be an unstoppable force. In truth, as much as finding that legendary sword is rewarding, it is stopped short with the amount of time it takes to achieve it, and as well as the small sense of accomplishment in being able to use it. After being level 50 for what could be 300 or more hours, the sense of accomplishment in reaching level 50 has usually gone. All that is left is the feeling of grief in knowing all that remains is the hours and hours you will spend grinding to find that legendary sword or that top tier set.

I propose a player doesn't have the grief of not finding such an item. My idea is very similar to Torchlight in that players are able to use an item based on their stats or skills instead of their level after level 50. I do not advise being able to use this system before the level cap due to alts becoming way more powerful than they should be. Only a system that allows players to find that legendary sword they always wanted much faster, but then required to do some form of alternative progression in order to be able to use that weapon.

I also don't advise in making this system cause players to feel forced by what they find. That if they find a legendary sword that they cannot use they feel they have to reach the requirements of that sword - even if it is against what they wanted to be. The drop rates of these higher leveled items must be just like items were before max level was reached.

While it is true that it takes time to get that epic loot once you hit max level, there still has to be a gear progression after you reach 50. Like Large dungeons are 24 man in this game, I like that. I also feel they should be harder and drop better loot than the small 4 man dungeons.

But then what happens after you clear all the content? Will there be new content released or will they implement a challenge mode of some kind? I am hoping for both, I have really high hopes for this game and it would be a shame it the endgame content was as small as it was in Rift, or you leveled in terrible areas like you did in SWTOR. I also hope the PvP is better in this game than it is in WOW. I know that is a lot to ask for in a game, but Bathesda has never let me down before.


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(September 3rd 2013, 09:44 PM)Andromead Wrote:
(August 5th 2013, 05:21 PM)Kilivin Wrote: Items of Legend
One issue I have with level caps is that there are also item level caps that will never exceed that level. From this it gives the player the idea that "if you're lucky" you will be an unstoppable force. In truth, as much as finding that legendary sword is rewarding, it is stopped short with the amount of time it takes to achieve it, and as well as the small sense of accomplishment in being able to use it. After being level 50 for what could be 300 or more hours, the sense of accomplishment in reaching level 50 has usually gone. All that is left is the feeling of grief in knowing all that remains is the hours and hours you will spend grinding to find that legendary sword or that top tier set.

I propose a player doesn't have the grief of not finding such an item. My idea is very similar to Torchlight in that players are able to use an item based on their stats or skills instead of their level after level 50. I do not advise being able to use this system before the level cap due to alts becoming way more powerful than they should be. Only a system that allows players to find that legendary sword they always wanted much faster, but then required to do some form of alternative progression in order to be able to use that weapon.

I also don't advise in making this system cause players to feel forced by what they find. That if they find a legendary sword that they cannot use they feel they have to reach the requirements of that sword - even if it is against what they wanted to be. The drop rates of these higher leveled items must be just like items were before max level was reached.

While it is true that it takes time to get that epic loot once you hit max level, there still has to be a gear progression after you reach 50. Like Large dungeons are 24 man in this game, I like that. I also feel they should be harder and drop better loot than the small 4 man dungeons.

But then what happens after you clear all the content? Will there be new content released or will they implement a challenge mode of some kind? I am hoping for both, I have really high hopes for this game and it would be a shame it the endgame content was as small as it was in Rift, or you leveled in terrible areas like you did in SWTOR. I also hope the PvP is better in this game than it is in WOW. I know that is a lot to ask for in a game, but Bathesda has never let me down before.

Haha, I'm sure the PvP will be the pride & glory of TESO. Smiling

The idea behind the 'Items of Legend' ( for lack of a better name ) is to allow people a somewhat "unreachable" goal of gear. I always struggled with games that the item limit is always this or that tier of loot. That is due to the fact that they're based upon the essence of grinding to become better at something. That is in no way how Elder Scrolls, or any RPG ought to be. While, sure, it is fun to work at something for a long time in order to obtain something awesome, but there are many other ways of doing that then forcing people to repeat a weekly dungeon time and time again hoping for a 0.1% drop rate item.

To me, the concept of items to be difficult to obtain is mind-numbing. However, the idea of items to be difficult to be able to USE is not. If I know that all I have to do is increase so and so in order to use this amazing item, then I am guaranteed something at a rate of which is determined by my determination and not luck. Let's face it, as much as you run dungeons over and over, there is still the aspect of luck you're facing when trying to find a good item.

Sure. . they have made systems in other MMOs now that give you a token of sorts which you accumulate to get an item. That is just a half-ass way to say, "Suck it up, you're grinding for your gear." It's more grinding, and less evolving your character. That to me is something I find essential, and if such a thing isn't done in TESO, there's no WAY I'm playing PvE as an end game for a second.


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