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Add-ons?


Started by Lippert
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Damn Guild Master, you realy do think you are something better dont you?

Addons are terrible, and saying people just dont like them because "they fail to compete" is just something overly hypocritical to say.
as addons have been made in the first place to minimize the effort on the player side and are therfor nothing else but a help for people that cannot make it on their own.

you could do all that math on your own, you could target every raid member on your own, you can track the aggro of all mobs through calculation.
But you dont, you use addons.

And what happened? The game had to be rebalanced, so that addons were now mandatory for high tier raiding, meaning that if you did not have addons you could do fuck all, because the game was now balanced around them. Forcing you to get them.

And now of course you can scoff at those casuals, not realizing that this is not actually the point.
As a Hardcore player it is natural that you want to beat the hardest content as efficiently as possible.

This is the exact reason why addons should not be allowed in ESO. Because it shifts the player skill away from where the Devs intendet it and towards spreadsheets.
Id wager WoW actually requires alot less skill than it would do if there were no Addons.

And lets face it, the real hardcores dont play WoW. WoW is for milk drinkers.
Those folks play DAoC, Shadowbane, Istaria and what remains of Acherons call, Lineage 2 even.

Lets talk about the non competetive element of games for a bit: Rare spawns. Well they are called like that for a reason. You basically render the whole idea of them moot through the addons, wich is why they hardly ever happen again these days.
You basically make the game worse. By exploiting addons.
Your Argument is basically pointless. And to make matters worse its also hypocritical.
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Hahaha how does wanting the ability to use add-ons to speed up levelling and proffession make me better than others, noo, so to quote

(February 16th 2013, 08:51 AM)Sordak Wrote: Damn Guild Master, you realy do think you are something better dont you?

...is a little uncalled for, but to answer your question the answer would be no i don't :) i like the add-ons to provide assistance and to speed up farming and proffesion grinding so i can spend more time on the things i actually enjoy doing i.e playing the game, PvP and end-game raiding. If any of you were to read my earlier posts you would notice i never used tHE words "they fail to compete" but rather "trouble competing" with those that do, for the Sordaks benefit ill explain this, as i have said before those investing time can use add-ons to tweak there characters abilities and master their rotations, those without them will not be able to see there % of damage at the end of the dungeon, so a person might be dealing 7% overall group dps when they have the potential to reach a substantial amount more, this doesn't make me hypocritical.

This is a debate over Add-ons and whether we want them or not, i am mealy putting my thoughts across.

It makes me laugh when i read Sordaks comment on

(February 16th 2013, 08:51 AM)Sordak Wrote: you could do all that math on your own, you could target every raid member on your own, you can track the aggro of all mobs through calculation. But you dont, you use addons.

who in their right mind wants to go through all that effort, when a 2 minute download can track this for you, showing you who and which classes are the more effective builds, what spells do the most abilities etc, this allows you as a raid leader to have faster more productive encounters. The argument i can see people making is this can be seen as lasy and unfair to those that do not have add-ons, fair enough. For those with them from the tank that has threat management ones to the dps that get raid warnings appear on screen telling them to vacate an area and to the healers that get informed of an imminent heavy attack so they can start a long cast early on to heal the attack as it occurs. All have been designed around the population of MMORPGs.

All you have to do is look at curse.com and btw Sordak feel free to check my numbers you will see addons like

Atlas Loot - 35,698,091 - Downloads
Deadly Boss Mods - 55,876,834 - Downloads
Recount - 40,219,817 - Downloads

have had countless downloads over the years by the vast community of add-on users :D which gives me hope.

(February 16th 2013, 08:51 AM)Sordak Wrote: And now of course you can scoff at those casuals, not realizing that this is not actually the point. As a Hardcore player it is natural that you want to beat the hardest content as efficiently as possible.

and i wouldn't describe myself as hardcore either, i would say i play a few hours a night and use add-ons to minimize the tedious tasks, such as proffessions and working out the maths. I like many players like to log-on, add-ons in hand hehe and enjoy the game not have to spend hours hunting for mining nodes or spend time swapping abilities over wandering if ill do better damage this time.

Lastly to quote my freind here one last time
(February 16th 2013, 08:51 AM)Sordak Wrote: Rare spawns. Well they are called like that for a reason. You basically render the whole idea of them moot through the addons, wich is why they hardly ever happen again these days.
You basically make the game worse. By exploiting addons.
Your Argument is basically pointless. And to make matters worse its also hypocritical.

hahahahaha. I will keep from personal attacks, although i have had many chances in this response, including an amazing amount of typos, you should use the built in spell checker it does help and read what you are writing.

In conclusion to my little debate, i would like to add, making use of add-ons is the way MMORPGs have evolved over the years, and if they were not intended to be applied to the games, the developers would never of opened there coding to programmers wanting to implement these helpful programs for our benefit. Whilst you can still play and enjoy the game without add-ons, by adapting them into your gaming experience you can achieve so much more, be that reducing your time with proffesions, improving your rotations and ability to adapt to situations, have on screen announcements of imminent danger, all have earned there place in the online gaming world, and as much as some will not like it, will most probably continue to do so. In closing i would like to thank Sordak for his fun and entertaining responses, and look forward to reading his next post


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Yess great you laughed at my post, but did not provide any actual points of your own.
So what i ask you?

Of course people would rather not do that hard stuff on their own when its alot easier to just get a programm that does it for you.
But why do you think people play games like Dark Souls? Why do people want a challenge?

Spreadsheet gaming is boring. Would you argue with that? Would you say WoWs raids are more enjoyable due to addons? More thirlling? More skillfull?
Id wager not many would say that. But it is required. Shifting the focus away from the gameplay itself towards the addons.
of course Blizzard includet many of these addons such as aggro meters in the game.
But not because it was their initial intention but because people were using it anyway, and they figured there is no other way of playing the damn thing.

Take a wild guess why people want to go back to the old days of DAoC and Asherons call. Cause WoW got dumbed down, its no longer challenging. And Addons are one of the major causes for that.

And if you want to neglect that i invite you to stay with WoW. But you are here. So i assume you want something different too this time around. Now dont you?
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I know exactly what kind of player Guild Master is.
Play through all content as fast as possible, be the best quit and go play something else.

They have said a million times that leveling WILL NOT be a massive grind, its an entirely different aspect of playing the game.
Would you like to skip this content?
The combat system is designed to reward skill.
Would you like to skip this content?

I could go on, but my point is clear.

Add-Ons ruin games. If you think about Raids in WoW, all the wannabe greats mod up and do them and call themselves good.
However I know for a fact, the best of the guilds test the content WITHOUT mods.
I do not call any player who uses mods a fan of the game they are playing, they only seek to change the game to benefit themselves, you want the game your way, then you make it.

Also the stats for how many times those mods have been downloaded. Is more than the WoW player base has ever had. Its causes by the same people downloading them several times.

Here are some points to consider.
Atlas look makes the game about what the boss drops, not the boss encounter itself, loot is a reward not a purpose.
Deadly boss mods, tells you what and when to do everything, all you have to do is... nothing? No skill in this mod, entirely for bads.
Recount is a genital measuring tool, used by people who believe there is only one way to play a game, again they have stated you can play the game how you want, you will still be useful.

I'm sorry, but if you cant figure out what to build your character as on your own, you shouldn't be playing a game with customization.
If you cant even play the game without assistance, you should be doing a tutorial.

That is the level of skill Mods inspire.


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To put it simply, majority of us want a hardcore gaming experience (sordak and avidus's point) and very few want a modded sleep fest. I realize add-ons make it simpler, but that dumbs down the experience, making it less fun for the majority of us. and Sordak, you're the one that wants a hardcore experience not Guild Master.



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Well spoken Weezr.


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Zenimax has their UI down to a science. Any looking on the screen will be at opponent's movements and your bars. Add-ons could give others unfair advantages and it just adds to having more clutter on the screen. They dumbed down the UI for a reason, to be in the game, not staring at boxes.


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(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: Hahaha how does wanting the ability to use add-ons to speed up levelling and proffession make me better than others, noo, so to quote

I dunno, that was your argument.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote:
Quote:you could do all that math on your own, you could target every raid member on your own, you can track the aggro of all mobs through calculation. But you dont, you use addons.

who in their right mind wants to go through all that effort,

One might as well ask who in their right mind wants to go through all the effort of grinding through repetitive raid content just to gear up for more of the same.

Seriously, the way you speak of the game they might as well just throw away levelling entirely and start right at the endgame. Skip the stuff you call tedious entirely, instead of half-assing their way around by supporting third party mods that help to truncate it.

And I wouldn't be entirely opposed to that move, either.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: when a 2 minute download can track this for you, showing you who and which classes are the more effective builds, what spells do the most abilities etc, this allows you as a raid leader to have faster more productive encounters.

I read that as "spend less time playing the game."

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: The argument i can see people making is this can be seen as lasy and unfair to those that do not have add-ons, fair enough.

You've missed the point. It's not a comparison of "those who have them and those who don't," it's a comparison of "everyone has them vs nobody has them." It's analagous to a discussion of whether or not blood-doping should be legalized in the Olympics.

(Note: 'analagous' means "roughly comparable to," not "exactly the same.")

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: For those with them from the tank that has threat management ones to the dps that get raid warnings appear on screen telling them to vacate an area and to the healers that get informed of an imminent heavy attack so they can start a long cast early on to heal the attack as it occurs. All have been designed around the population of MMORPGs.

Note that all of this takes away a level of skill from the game; the ability to judge threat management and discern raid patterns intuitively becomes a dead skill once you've thrown in mechanical aids to take over those tasks, and is no longer one of the traits separating the Top Tier from the Wannabes.

This is why I said, earlier, that if my concern was about having trouble competing I'd be championing these mods instead of citing them as detrimental to the game.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: have had countless downloads over the years by the vast community of add-on users :D which gives me hope.

Just reminds me why I tend to dislike most of the people who surround me in MMORPGs these days. The sole good thing about the growing tendency of MMORPGs to play more akin to DOTA-style lobby games is a is that it minimizes my need to interact with these goofs. The bad thing is that it seems to attract even more of them, reducing the relative proportion of people in game that I'd want to play with instead of grief.


(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: I like many players like to log-on, add-ons in hand hehe and enjoy the game not have to spend hours hunting for mining nodes or spend time swapping abilities over wandering if ill do better damage this time.

And yet, it's those very time-sinks which create room for the devs to create new content while you're working your way through the existing stuff. The more you truncate that aspect of the game - and yes, going through that is playing the game - the more you rush the devs. And consequently, the more likely you are to get half-assed poorly thought out and repetitive content updates.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: Lastly to quote my freind here one last time
<snip>
hahahahaha. I will keep from personal attacks, although i have had many chances in this response, including an amazing amount of typos, you should use the built in spell checker it does help and read what you are writing.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. First, it's spelled "friend" not "freind." Second: your grammar and punctuation could both use a lot of work. Since you're a fan of third-party add-ons, it should be trivial for you to find a spell checker that does grammar as well.

Also:
(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: In conclusion to my little debate, i would like to add, making use of add-ons is the way MMORPGs have evolved over the years,

You misspelt "devolved."

When features that were once part of the game balance, and part of what seperated the top-tier from the next rung, have become viewed as tedious things to be minimized so you can get on to playing the game *but are still kept in the game,* then something horribly wrong has happened.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: and if they were not intended to be applied to the games, the developers would never of opened there coding to programmers wanting to implement these helpful programs for our benefit.

Indeed.

And so is it any wonder that those who view the often unsatisfying gameplay of most modern MMORPGs as being linked to the direction that these add-ons have taken the game are hoping that TESO's developers don't go the same route?

There's a reason why ~5 milion people play WoW. But there's also a reason why there's a loud and outspoken contingent of the MMORPG community who keep hoping the next new game will be the "WoW Killer," and it's not just resentment of the top-dog. The gameplay has become increasingly less satisfying, and it's done so in a manner that correlates heavily with the growth of these add-ons. Granted: correlation isn't necessarily causation, but it does imply there's at lease some kind of connection.

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: Whilst you can still play and enjoy the game without add-ons, by adapting them into your gaming experience you can achieve so much more, be that reducing your time with proffesions, improving your rotations and ability to adapt to situations, have on screen announcements of imminent danger,

And have it all mean so much less.

There was a point when spent with professions was time well spent; now it's just something to churn through as fast as possible for the rewards, and professions being devolved down to mere sidelines. There was a time when a player's ability to adapt to situations, predict/recall raid patterns or balance accrued aggro against survivability was a mark of skill; now it's just a mark of whether or not you've kept up to speed on your third-party support.

And meanwhile, there is an ever increasing sentiment that the modern MMOs are getting even more and more dumbed down. But nobody other than the heretics like myself wants to consider that there might be a connection; they all want to blame the devs instead.

(Though I suppose the dev's continued support for these tools does make them indirectly complicit....)

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: all have earned there place in the online gaming world, and as much as some will not like it, will most probably continue to do so. In closing i would like to thank Sordak for his fun and entertaining responses, and look forward to reading his next post

This sort of passive-aggresive obscured personal attack isn't much better than the more direct version. It's just less likely to be seen as having crossed the lines in the TOS.
This post was last modified: February 16th 2013, 02:10 PM by Venitas the Heretic
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(February 16th 2013, 01:23 PM)weezr_wasari Wrote: To put it simply, majority of us want a hardcore gaming experience (sordak and avidus's point) and very few want a modded sleep fest. I realize add-ons make it simpler, but that dumbs down the experience, making it less fun for the majority of us. and Sordak, you're the one that wants a hardcore experience not Guild Master.

Thankyou for the support Weezr Wasari, although what i think Sordak is after is to bring life back into the MMORPG circuit that was there once in the early days of online gaming, and from his point of view that add-ons have ruined that and took away something special from the game. I use them because they are available and dont feel anyone should be frowned upon for doing so as they are of great benefit to anyone that can make use of them, if they wasn't there i would not grumble i would go back to old school gaming with a pad of paper near my desk to jot down results or use the forums for advice and build info.

(February 16th 2013, 01:33 PM)Liger Wrote: Zenimax has their UI down to a science. Any looking on the screen will be at opponent's movements and your bars. Add-ons could give others unfair advantages and it just adds to having more clutter on the screen. They dumbed down the UI for a reason, to be in the game, not staring at boxes.

How do you know they have it down to a science your just speculating, that is not known and nor is beta test results, glitches people can find, please dont make comments like Zenimax has their UI down to a science as they are new to MMOG's and that is still yet to be determined. as for Add-ons giving people having an unfair advantage, what would be the problem with that, everyone would have the chance to download them so i don't see why people are so against them. Is it because people have not used add-ons before or are new to Online Gaming, i do not know, but they do not clutter the screen and can be minimised just like this Web Browser you are viewing can be, and bought back up when needing to refer to something or find something out. As for dumbing it down, i think they want people to see more of there environment than anything else, but this will also free up space for addons, convenient that!!! :D


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(February 16th 2013, 02:06 PM)Guild Master Wrote: [please dont make comments like Zenimax has their UI down to a science as they are new to MMOG's

As a group, yes. But individually, ZOS is filled with long-time veterans who've been developing MMOGs pretty much since the term was coined - if not longer (if one considers that there were games that would have qualified as MMOGs before people were calling them that.)

(February 16th 2013, 02:06 PM)Guild Master Wrote: Is it because people have not used add-ons before or are new to Online Gaming,

I used UOAssist back when I was playing UO. It was a pared down and tolerated version of another mod that was pretty much blatant cheating.

But I wound up disabling most of it, because I found most of it actually took away from the experience. I kept it for one thing only: reagent gathering. And that, only because the manual process was too lag-sensitive on my dialup and too easily pre-empted by those who were using it themselves.

(February 16th 2013, 02:06 PM)Guild Master Wrote: i do not know, but they do not clutter the screen

They do from the POV implied by ZOS' statement of intent regarding the UI.
Anything you look at instead of the on-screen action is deemed 'clutter.' If you're watching threat-meters or keeping an eye out for raid-warnings instead of watching the mob animations, you're missing the point.

And, presuming they deliver as promised, may even be negatively impacting your actual performance - since the animations are supposed to be the keys to timing the interrupts, evasions and synergies that are key to maxing out your performance (both individually and as a group.)

But hey, at least you can see the numbers and scratch your head trying to figure out how the guy who only uses them during build-testing sessions is outperforming you in the actual raids :p Assuming, as I said, the ZOS delivers on that particular promise.
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(February 16th 2013, 10:38 AM)Sordak Wrote: Spreadsheet gaming is boring. Would you argue with that? Would you say WoWs raids are more enjoyable due to addons? More thirlling? More skillfull? Id wager not many would say that. But it is required. Shifting the focus away from the gameplay itself towards the addons.

I have no argument there, yes it can be a little boring but at the end-game raiding level is some what of a necessity nowadays, Would you argue with that? Yes sure i would like my raiding to have more of a thrill, but as for being skillful there is no add-on out there that gives that, that all comes down to the man behind the machine. Sordak i don't want to argue this point but addons do not shift the focus away from the game-play, i still spend time researching the encounters in the forums and have been up to the early hours of the morning with the raid group, like many others receiving wipe after wipe until things click within the group and you achieve something special, the encounter still gives me that excitement and the when you down a heroic raid boss for the first time, you get that level of satisfaction.

(February 16th 2013, 10:38 AM)Sordak Wrote: Take a wild guess why people want to go back to the old days of DAoC and Asherons call. Cause WoW got dumbed down, its no longer challenging. And Addons are one of the major causes for that.

As for it not being challenging of course it is, if your referring to raid finder which has been dumbed down to a ridiculous level and what i call a faceroll, then sure it has been dumbed down, but that's there for people that don't want the hardships of hardcore raiding, but still want to experience it none the less. How can you say raiding is not challenging, addons don't suddenly stop it being challenging, but can offer you a lifeline.

(February 16th 2013, 10:38 AM)Sordak Wrote: And if you want to neglect that i invite you to stay with WoW. But you are here. So i assume you want something different too this time around. Now dont you?

I am not leaving WoW, because i'm unchallenged, i have made the decision to relocate our guild from Azeroth to Tamriel for something different, yes each expansion brings new content, but its the same level grind, same gear crunch, same kill and collect quests that it has always been and i have begun to find it tedious and unfulfilling, which is sad to say since i've played since Vanilla, and was not an easy decision to make. Yes i do want something different this time around and will be interesting to see is The Elder Scrolls online will be able to provide such a difference in gameplay, I do agree with you Sordak in parts but i still believe addons can be of benefit if not abused.

(February 16th 2013, 01:07 PM)Avidus Wrote: I know exactly what kind of player Guild Master is.
Play through all content as fast as possible, be the best quit and go play something else.

What how do you get that from my posts, i have been playing WoW since Vanilla and am a dedicated player and guild leader, i care about my team and have never abandoned them, i do like to play through content as fast as possible, and get my guild through it, why you may ask Avidus with your condescending remarks is because i have a family who i care for too, i like to achieve what i want to achieve and with the rest of my time spend time with them, is that a crime????

(February 16th 2013, 09:57 AM)Guild Master Wrote: when a 2 minute download can track this for you, showing you who and which classes are the more effective builds, what spells do the most abilities etc, this allows you as a raid leader to have faster more productive encounters.

(February 16th 2013, 02:02 PM)Venitas the Heretic Wrote: I read that as "spend less time playing the game."

yes and as ive already mentioned in my post i speed up my gaming to fit it in around my family as do the rest of the guild who also are family men. i wander if those who use addons are family men, people with responsibilities other than that of a pc game. those that use them to speed things up to allow them their gaming fix so to speak, and get them back to the real world and not the virtual one.

(February 16th 2013, 01:07 PM)Avidus Wrote: They have said a million times that leveling WILL NOT be a massive grind, its an entirely different aspect of playing the game.
Would you like to skip this content?
The combat system is designed to reward skill.
Would you like to skip this content?
I could go on, but my point is clear.

no i would beg to differ i dont think your point is clear in the slightest, when youve played a game for over 5+years you will find you have to repeat the same quests each time you level up, and the content becomes boring, i myself have 6 level 90s, 3 85s and 1 level 60 in WoW, meaning i have done the same damn quests 10times with different alts. Experiencing those Quests for the first time was a exciting and enjoyable, even the second time i had forgot some of them, but when you work with several characters you soon feel the strain of completing the same quests over and over and thats why its called a grind, i am sure there are millions of gamers who understand this and can relate.

(February 16th 2013, 01:07 PM)Avidus Wrote: However I know for a fact, the best of the guilds test the content WITHOUT mods.

yes test, not complete, and yes there are some amazing guilds out there that can probably do this without addons, but why stop there why not ban Ventrillo or Teamspeak, that wasn't planned by the developers, so why do guilds use that, it gives them an advantage, its speeds up communication. I played the game it was meant to be played then changed my game style to fit my gaming around my family, i am 27 not some kid that just sits behind his computer, i have to find a balance and addons help me speed this up and achieve this balance, would you begrudge me that????

(February 16th 2013, 01:07 PM)Avidus Wrote: Also the stats for how many times those mods have been downloaded. Is more than the WoW player base has ever had. Its causes by the same people downloading them several times.

Well i think that's pretty much obvious, atlas loot tells you what bosses drop so you know when you have gained all the loot from that dungeon, but as does The dungeon Journal in the game now, so atlas loot is not as much in use as it once was, Deadly boss mods gives you visual warnings and i myself find it a blessing, plus i do like the Super Mario style music that plays during an encounter i do find that funny lol. Again there nothing wrong with addons there available so use them.

Don't get the anger this topic has caused and the personal attacks people feel like doing, not just in this one but i've read ones in other topics two like peoples opinions on orcs etc, its a game for god sake, and people have real commitments away from there virtual ones, so in closing yes i use add-ons and if they do not get made in teso, i am fine with that, however if they do, you can guarantee people will download them and consequently i will also have to to complete in a competitive environment. Good luck everyone come launch i look forward to stand shoulder to shoulder with the brothers of the Daggerfall Authority, or meeting my opposition on the Battlefield
This post was last modified: February 16th 2013, 08:18 PM by Guild Master


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(February 16th 2013, 02:44 PM)Guild Master Wrote: I have no argument there

indeed.
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Cant be bothered to argue about this again, so I am just adding my support to Sordak, good to see him again at his best anyway Winking_tongue_out

Do you think the megaserver would have some option to filter out the elitist and egocentric people? Or you solve this by click on "20y+"?


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I like a good debate, get quite satisfied about it and i must admit Sordak is proving a hard nut to crack :P how about this as a compromise

I do see the point and i agree addons have ruined certain aspects of the game, what i'm saying though is without them you cannot compete in today's raiding experience, because of the fact the raid mechanics have been designed around these addons now as people started complaining about level of difficulty. Now the content difficulty has been increased and without each member having optimal builds and the correct gear and addons regardless of peoples views on them, and yes i understand peoples opinions on the matter, i feel i am the only one defending them

Also i love leveling etc and trying to speed through the game is only what i do with alts once i have experienced the content and made the most of it, you have to admit it has become some what of a grind to level multiple characters up and if you have max can end up repeating the same quests over and over. and im not saying with other races, but if you use the same race but with different styles you can lose interest.

I also am a family man and addons help speed up the game and get me back to my family. but i do see your point about taking away skill, i would not like to consider myself elitist as i am not, i ran a casual guild on wow, and had a small group that wanted to clear end-game content and so i became a tank, self-taught myself and struggled, approached forums and elitest websites such as noxxic to aid me in my progression and make me a better player, that does not make me elitist in anyway, rather a dedicated guild leader that took up arms for his brothers.

Think there are two sides to every coin, and can see peoples points of views on addons, just as i hope people can see mine, this will be my last post on the topic.


GM OF [TDA] THE DAGGERFALL AUTHORITY..
RECRUITING NOW..@..http://www.daggerfall-authority.enjin.com
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Rhox
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i can see it but at the end of the day.
Its kind of bad design if the leveling is so boring that you actually want to speed through it.
Whiel i can see that it gets boring with alts (i know that, i played my share of MMOs) i think some of the game design in ESO (nameley different factions with completeley different leveling expiriences, and choices throughout the questlines) should give you some replay value.

I just dont feel that cutting away on the overall quality of the endgame expirience is a price i want to pay to have convenience features that were not envisioned by the Devs.
Choice is good. But as ive pointed out many times before. There is no choice in MMORPGs if you want to stay competetive. Go full on, or drop.
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