Clavicus and Barbas

So in every TES game since ever Clavicus Vile was companied by a dog, named Barbas.

I don´t know exactly what Barbas´ role was in prior games was, but I know for Oblivion and Skyrim:

In Oblivion C.V. wanted you to regain a mighty object (no spoilers!) but when you got it Barbas would say, "No! Don´t give it him!"

When you then come to his statue Barbas at his side is gone.

After you give C.V. the object Barbas statue will return to his place next to C.V.

---

In Skyrim Barbas the dog comes at you for some reasons and asks you to follow him to the shrine of C.V.

There Barbas is again not in the statue. Barbas left C.V. but he now wants to return. C.V. will accept that when you bring him another mighty object.

When you have the object C.V. wants you to "kill" Barbas with it. It´s your choice to "kill" him or not. Both choices will make Barbas disappear and reappear in the statue of his master.

---

Now I wonder...

The shrines of the Daedra, though made by the mortals, are the hot spots of the depicted Daedra, a point where he can talk and intervene directly among his followers. Some Deadra can this everywhere, but some can only talk at very few places. These places are either choosen by the followers to built the shrines there or created by the presence of the shrine or worship.

Shrines are made of stone. So how can a stone dog disappear? The better question... why has the stone dog to disappear so that Barbas can talk to you?

I mean... Barbas is linked to C.V. maybe they are even one entitiy, though Barbas is trying to convince you not to follow his masters orders. It might be his way of playing with the mortals minds and to mantle his true aims. Did he really wanted you to hand out the migthy objects? Or was his aim that you keep it and he used Barbas to tell you that. But for now we want to think of Barbas and C.V. as two different beeings.

Whenever Barbas leaves C.V. so that he talks to you or that you can actually see him, he isn´t in the statue. Except when you actually meet C.V. AND Barbas in persona. But that makes me think...

When the shrines are very portals through which the Deadra can commit actions on Nirn. Of course their shrines are affected by such actions. Like the trap of Molag Bal´s shrine in Markarth. Other stuff I could think of are statues sheding tears or stuff like that.

But anyway. Barbas commiting actions upon Nirn seems to equal Barbas not in the statue. OK.

But I wonder, does he disappear in every shrine in all Tamriel? I mean while Barbas left his master during the forth era, was he in any statue? Or did he just miss in the Heamar´s shame shrine?

Another thing I wonder... Is Barbas really so important to the mortal that they built him into the shrine of C.V.? In Oblivion and Skyrim Barbas wanted to prevent you from solving his masters tasks. Of course C.V. may like him as pet and as companion... but that would be annoying. What he actually says in Skyrim. So if I was to built a shrine of C.V. in order to worship him and actually gain profit from him I would leave out Barbas in the statue.

One the one hand I would show C.V. "hey! We love you and we don´t give a shit for whiny Barbas!" And on the other hand it might practically prevent Barbas from taking actions upon Nirn in the first place.

So I think as the statues then were worshipped at and finally transformed into the shrines of C.V. Barbas materialized at his side. It wasn´t actually planned by the builders, but there he was! I think Barbas is such a important part of C.V. that he would find a way to appear in his shrine. He finds atleast a way to disappear from his shrine, so one could think it must work the other way round, too.

But why?

Maybe Barbas is another Daedra who was kinda enslaved by C.V.. Now he uses him as his pet and a source of his power. In Skyrim atleast he says that with him a big part of his power was gone, too. But Barbas actualy works against his master several times. A slave rebels against his master? As he only runs away or talks to you the ties must lay heavy on him. When you "kill" Barbas it is said that he will return in like 100 years. It´s like killing a Daedra on Nirn: It sends them back to Oblivion instead of really dying. So I think he actually is a Deadra. The "hundred" years for his return might be the time Barbas needs to travel from the endless Oblivion to C.V.´s side again.

The image of a dog aswell might be a image of enslavement. C.V. wants to show Barbas the place where belongs: Barbas as inferior servant and C.V. as master.

All of this is just theory, but I found very little about Barbas Lore, so I think this could be like this.

It is indeed a mystery. Those guy's frighten me. Hope they appear in onlinr

The other idea and probably more realistic is that Barbas is a type of familiar or companion. Maybe the spirit of a lesser Daedra. Full Daedra cannot enter our world except through an extremely powerful and complicated ritual. But lesser daedra have always been able to enter through various means. Barbas must be some sort of lesser daedra that hasn't been identified. As to whether or not the statue disappeared when Barbas did I don't think it did. The dog was there to be part of the quest. If you aren't part of the quest (as other statues in other lands weren't) you would just see the dog there. I don't think the statue is really Barbas, but just a statue that the daedra work through. As to how it disappears and then reappears... it's a Daedra. Clavicus could easily make it disappear and reappear. After all Sheogorath made it rain dead dogs, so I think Clavicus can manage a disappearing statue.

(February 21st 2013, 02:20 PM)Idriar Wrote: So in every TES game since ever Clavicus Vile was companied by a dog, named Barbas.

I don´t know exactly what Barbas´ role was in prior games was, but I know for Oblivion and Skyrim:

In Oblivion C.V. wanted you to regain a mighty object (no spoilers!) but when you got it Barbas would say, "No! Don´t give it him!"

When you then come to his statue Barbas at his side is gone.

After you give C.V. the object Barbas statue will return to his place next to C.V.

---

In Skyrim Barbas the dog comes at you for some reasons and asks you to follow him to the shrine of C.V.

There Barbas is again not in the statue. Barbas left C.V. but he now wants to return. C.V. will accept that when you bring him another mighty object.

When you have the object C.V. wants you to "kill" Barbas with it. It´s your choice to "kill" him or not. Both choices will make Barbas disappear and reappear in the statue of his master.

---

Now I wonder...

The shrines of the Daedra, though made by the mortals, are the hot spots of the depicted Daedra, a point where he can talk and intervene directly among his followers. Some Deadra can this everywhere, but some can only talk at very few places. These places are either choosen by the followers to built the shrines there or created by the presence of the shrine or worship.

Shrines are made of stone. So how can a stone dog disappear? The better question... why has the stone dog to disappear so that Barbas can talk to you?

I mean... Barbas is linked to C.V. maybe they are even one entitiy, though Barbas is trying to convince you not to follow his masters orders. It might be his way of playing with the mortals minds and to mantle his true aims. Did he really wanted you to hand out the migthy objects? Or was his aim that you keep it and he used Barbas to tell you that. But for now we want to think of Barbas and C.V. as two different beeings.

Whenever Barbas leaves C.V. so that he talks to you or that you can actually see him, he isn´t in the statue. Except when you actually meet C.V. AND Barbas in persona. But that makes me think...

When the shrines are very portals through which the Deadra can commit actions on Nirn. Of course their shrines are affected by such actions. Like the trap of Molag Bal´s shrine in Markarth. Other stuff I could think of are statues sheding tears or stuff like that.

But anyway. Barbas commiting actions upon Nirn seems to equal Barbas not in the statue. OK.

But I wonder, does he disappear in every shrine in all Tamriel? I mean while Barbas left his master during the forth era, was he in any statue? Or did he just miss in the Heamar´s shame shrine?

Another thing I wonder... Is Barbas really so important to the mortal that they built him into the shrine of C.V.? In Oblivion and Skyrim Barbas wanted to prevent you from solving his masters tasks. Of course C.V. may like him as pet and as companion... but that would be annoying. What he actually says in Skyrim. So if I was to built a shrine of C.V. in order to worship him and actually gain profit from him I would leave out Barbas in the statue.

One the one hand I would show C.V. "hey! We love you and we don´t give a shit for whiny Barbas!" And on the other hand it might practically prevent Barbas from taking actions upon Nirn in the first place.

So I think as the statues then were worshipped at and finally transformed into the shrines of C.V. Barbas materialized at his side. It wasn´t actually planned by the builders, but there he was! I think Barbas is such a important part of C.V. that he would find a way to appear in his shrine. He finds atleast a way to disappear from his shrine, so one could think it must work the other way round, too.

But why?

Maybe Barbas is another Daedra who was kinda enslaved by C.V.. Now he uses him as his pet and a source of his power. In Skyrim atleast he says that with him a big part of his power was gone, too. But Barbas actualy works against his master several times. A slave rebels against his master? As he only runs away or talks to you the ties must lay heavy on him. When you "kill" Barbas it is said that he will return in like 100 years. It´s like killing a Daedra on Nirn: It sends them back to Oblivion instead of really dying. So I think he actually is a Deadra. The "hundred" years for his return might be the time Barbas needs to travel from the endless Oblivion to C.V.´s side again.

The image of a dog aswell might be a image of enslavement. C.V. wants to show Barbas the place where belongs: Barbas as inferior servant and C.V. as master.

All of this is just theory, but I found very little about Barbas Lore, so I think this could be like this.

I agree that C.V. enslave Barbas. There is symbolism in there. Barbas probably sought power and then made a pact with C.V. Now he wants to be free. That is happening with mortals too who worshiping C.V.

Barbas and Clavicus are the same being

(March 9th 2013, 11:06 AM)Shurth Aszef Wrote: Barbas and Clavicus are the same being

I am very interesting in hearing you explain what makes you think that. I am interesting in that thought line myself, but I can't think of anything in lore that supports this. The lesser daedra idea sounds more plausable.

Why would a lesser daedra have half of clavicus's power.

I like to think of it like a split personality disorder, but with only two personalities and they each share the same amount of power.

One can not simply understand the mind of a deadra prince... CV is not as contradictive as Sheogorath, but he still is. It could be so that CV has split personalities or he just has the power to have two lines of thoughts, two minds at the same time, operating in two different dimentions. So indirectly, Barbas and CV are the same thing and quite not.
But i seriously don't think that barbas is a lesser daedra...
Why the hell would CV bother with something so... boring?

(February 21st 2013, 02:20 PM)Idriar Wrote: All of this is just theory, but I found very little about Barbas Lore, so I think this could be like this.

This is all I could find lore wise and wiki is sometimes right , sometimes wrong , Sordak will probably be more clued up about this I'd guess.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Barbas
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Creeper

I was possibly thinking like ying and yang two beings that create one. Maybe Jekyl and Hyde?? Just a though