Join the Ashes of Creation MMORPG
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)

Combat Improvement - Realism!


Started by MattLegler
Post #80133
Member

Likes Given: 0
Likes Received: 4
Most combat games have quite a linear combat evolution. You start at level 1 and upgrade to the maximum level and win a few perks along with damage bonus.

TESO needs to break this mould.

If i go outside tomorrow and pick up a sword or bow, i'm going to suck pretty badly. My form will be terrible and my aim will suffer.

What TESO needs, is a way to watch your skill improve in real-time. There needs to be a way to identify how well someone has mastered a skill, by watching them in combat, just like you could in real life.

For example, at level 1 marksmanship, i should stumble putting an arrow on the string, and my aim should waver. Perhaps by level 20 my aim is finally steady, and arrows are more easily fired. By level 100 I have mastered a bow and I can fire arrows quite rapidly.

The same idea applies towards magicka or swordsmanship. At level 1 destruction, a spell should take a second to gather the energy to fire. By level 100 i should be able to easilly barrage spells at an opponent.(with an inefficient magicka usage as a result).

At level 1 one-handed, i would like to see myself poorly swinging a sword at a slow speed; by 100, a much improved form along with quite swift swings.



Also, id like to see an improvement with melee weapons. In TES:Skyrim, a sword had 5 possible swing actions: two horizontal and two diagonal swings, along with an over head stamina-charge-swing. This became overly repetitive as I leveled up, especially if i had multiple characters. On top of this, sword-combos never felt that special, because i was always doing the same sword action repetitively.

If TESO wants to be as realistic as possible (and i'm sure they do), they need an improvement like this. TES is launching into MMO this coming game release, and it would put them in a whole new kind of categorical awesome if they included this as well. Game play would feel even more realistic than it already does.






Side Note: Ive noticed the (Y) or (Triangle) button [Xbox360/PS3 respectively] is only used as a jump button.

Id love to see an added feature, (Direction)+(Y) as an agility move during combat : One quick step sideways, forwards, or backwards. Nothing too drastic, just a quick button to press at the right moment for a chance of damage reduction. In real life it would just be a jump from one foot to the other, which i'm sure happens quite often in combat situations.
This post was last modified: July 18th 2013, 01:35 AM by MattLegler
Like this post Reply
The following 4 users Like MattLegler's post:
anthonyarc10, Apocalypso, Konahrik, vigk vagk v2
Post #80134
Contributor

Likes Given: 307
Likes Received: 525
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact
Dunmer
Moved this over to the TESO General Discussion board for game design recommendations. The Help and Feedback board is more so for technical subjects pertaining to the website.

-HS, Moderator


Character Profiles:
Endaros Ilmori - Buoyant Armiger
Sunrio - Aldmeri Justiciar

Taren Jucanis - Imperial Deserter (Used for The Black Shroud RP)
Like this post Reply
Post #80140
Member

Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 162
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion (Khajiit)
I can see this being a really nice addition to the game if implemented correctly. Although personally, I think this would be a bit better implemented in a single player game. Part of the Elder Scrolls feel is being able to pick up a new kind of weapon and start getting better at it but when you're with a huge group of other people and say you're picking up a weapon for the first time and you're pretty far in the game, you're going to feel like complete and utter crap which makes you not want to experiment as much. Since you're being compared to other people, having THAT much of a difference might discourage others from trying new things a bit too much.

That being said, I would absolutely love it if the next single-player TES game did something like this. In fact, it was kind of there in Oblivion (but a bit behind the scenes). In Oblivion, your arrows had less of an arc the better you got in archery. Your power attack animations also changed when you hit the milestones, giving the illusion that your character is learning new techniques and ACTUALLY improving their fighting style. I was a little sad when in Skyrim it didn't even do little changes like that.

Basically, I think this is an absolutely wonderful idea for a game. I just don't think it fits well in the MMO genre. Oh, and enjoy your first "Like".
This post was last modified: July 18th 2013, 02:21 AM by vigk vagk v2


Avatar created by Arisen.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes vigk vagk v2's post:
anthonyarc10
Post #80141
Member

Likes Given: 45
Likes Received: 345
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
I <3 console guys, they are funny (I mean the button dissection)

Wise choice of saying TESO "needs" if there was a word "must" I wouldnt have bothered reading further
This post was last modified: July 18th 2013, 02:22 AM by Rage


Debating with someone on the Internet is like mudwrestling with a pig. You get filthy and the pig loves it
Like this post Reply
Post #80274
Member

Likes Given: 36
Likes Received: 32
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant (Breton)
I believe they do have a dodging ability in combat now. Though I don't know what button it will be tied to for either console.

I agree with Vigk, in that this would be a wonderful mechanic for a single player game... but might prove to be a bit discouraging for folks in an MMO. The other thing is that ESO is trying to break out of the need for solid character roles a bit. For instance, if everyone/most of your group carries around a healing staff, then you can get away with not having an dedicated healer in your group. In order for strategies like that to work, people are going to have to be able to use weapons dependably even if it is the first time they've used it. With the appropriate power for the level they have with that skill, of course.

Being awkward at a new skill is frustrating enough when you are physically doing it. (I think it took me like a week to actually hit an archery target. XD) If you're playing a game with your friends and in the heat of battle you accidentally get someone else taken out because you forgot your CHARACTER had a newbie delay on their skill.... I would probably cry. I'm weird like that. lol

I do really love the idea of getting new regular attack combos as you level up. I imagine seeing other people's wicked lvl 50 combos would really make you want to level up faster.
Like this post Reply
Post #80306
Member

Likes Given: 11
Likes Received: 16
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant (Orc)
Realism? Like if you take an arrow in the knee you can no longer adventure?
Gotta suspend a little disbelief, at least until the generation after this upcoming one.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes RelativeBlue's post:
anthonyarc10
Post #80308
Member

Likes Given: 6
Likes Received: 6
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion (Khajiit)
Taking realism on a completely different note with RelativeBlue's analogy of getting an arrow in the knee, realistic combat effects could promote being injured if not killed in a battle. For example, you take an arrow in the knee. You, or a friend will have to remove the arrow and patch the wound to avoid bleeding out. Then the player would have to limp around until they died on that life or got healed by a healer with a healing spell. WOAH too many "heal"s in that sentence...


For The KHAJIIT! For ELSWEYR!
For The NORDS! For SKYRIM!

My Characters' info are on my profile page...
Like this post Reply
Post #80323
Member

Likes Given: 120
Likes Received: 115
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
This all sounds interesting and all, but completely unrealistic. When it's all said and done, this is a game, not real life, if i wanted to shoot bows i wouldn't be playing ESO i would go buy a bow and shoot it, not to mention we talking about urealistic character who had a life before you started playing him, i mean you dont start as baby, how do you know they dont haw formal basic experience in that field, that is why they dont start as total weaklings. Not to mention i bet there is already "semi-realistic" games out there, like "War of Roses" and "Chivalry", what you described doesn't seem Elder Scrolls appropriate, i mean you can push objects and people with a scream, lift 70kg+ weapons and armors (witch is your own average weight) cast magic, turn into Vampires and Werewolves, where dose it said that you need huge amount of time to learn somthin, may be in real life, yes, but in real life you cent shoot fire from your hands or turn into giant Bat/Wolf.
Like this post Reply
Post #80329
Member

Likes Given: 57
Likes Received: 274
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion
Khajiit
These are interesting ideas, but I have to agree that it's not quite appropriate for ESO. My biggest concern is latency. This is an online game so latency MUST be put into consideration. Perhaps one day when the entire earth is run with fiber optics then latency won't be a concern, but that's not how the world is.

Another thing, as stated before, this is a game. Even more, it is a fantasy game, not a medieval combat simulator. While your ideas are neat and would add to realism, I feel that it would take more from the game than it would add to it.


Master Pie-Man
Anointed Registar of the Headless Chicken

Do'Rakk the Brawler Backstory & Biography
Like this post Reply
Post #80344
Member

Likes Given: 126
Likes Received: 256
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant (Redguard)
As well the way it is, even at fifty you can pick up new weapons and learn how to use them while not fully mastering them. Perhaps not as cosmetically as you suggest, but you will still able to tell the difference between someone just starting out with a bow versus someone who has levelled it up. For example many skills and buffs won't be available to the new guy. Damage output would be totally different. I see what you're saying, but understand what you want is in game already.

In a sort of way
This post was last modified: July 18th 2013, 07:37 PM by Ferroc


Fight for something to die for, because living for nothing really isn't worth it.
Like this post Reply
Post #80351
Banned

Likes Given: 49
Likes Received: 138
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)

I agree with the OP to some extent.

Weapons need abilities like flurrys cleaves overhead strikes whirlwinds double strikes duel strike leap strikes.

Ppl saying that it is unappealling to learn a new weapon from the ground up are just foolish lazy gamers. skills should have to be worked on if i have mastered swords i Cant expect to pick up a bow and be at the same skill lvl. i should have to train it up by fighting creatures lower than me or dualing friends and guildys. People need to learn that they need to learn....very simple yet ppl struggle with the concept. you Cant master a skill cos you want to you master a skill because you trained hard in it and become a master.

Implementing a skill system this way ensures players who endure through the hard training perfect their craft making them masters and ppl they know will understand that they are good at what they do because the time they put into training the skill taught them to become powerful.

I do not want spoon fed abilities....i want abilities that become more powerful as you train them...that is as realistic as skills can be in an mmorpg.

As for arrows to the knee..they have talked about kill animations. but id like to see death animations...when your killing blow with a sword hits that mage across the arm his arm is severed he he falls to the ground and bleeds out. i want to see a kb with a fire attack send the foe screaming as he burns to death. i want a kb with an arrow hit the target and dropping them as they hold the arrow in their dying monents.

I want to feel like i died when i am killed blood swarms the screen as i slowly blackout and raise as a ghost.

All this adds to realism and immersion.

I do not want to see enemy players die by just falling to the ground after they lose their hp pool. they need animations that proc from the killing blow.
Like this post Reply
Post #80353
Member

Likes Given: 126
Likes Received: 256
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant (Redguard)
.....I think you misunderstood most replies to this. There is a system where you have to work up levelling a new skill. When you pick up a new weapon it will take time to master it. You won't magically be 100% efficient with a great sword after 45 levels using daggers. Because you're a higher level you might learn the basics quicker, but it will still take a lot of time to fully master it.

Obviously having multiple limbs getting dismembered would be a nightmare to code, but there most likely will be varied death animations. This is an alder scrolls title so I don't it'll just be a stock "faint" animation


Fight for something to die for, because living for nothing really isn't worth it.
Like this post Reply
Post #80396
Member

Likes Given: 32
Likes Received: 370
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
Ragdoll physics would make for an abundance of hilarious moments.


Like this post Reply
Post #80399
Member

Likes Given: 117
Likes Received: 233
I think you have some great ideas all it needs to be a bit more accesible and a bit more attainable for games is something such as how dnd does that if you are specialized in a weapon all similar weapons are automatically improved to proficient meaning that you are not great but you can at least use it to live anyways I really think it would help the game or really an es game cause the games do lack the sense of immersion rag doll physics are great and my least favorite thing i have seen from eso is actually your typical static animations of death

Personally I think the weapon idea is great though it needs to be handled in the proper way if a game implements a system of actual progression that really defines you it makes the small things really feel like huge accomplishments also the taking a huge amount of time to learn something seems to be being taken literal think about playing skyrim and how many years and or days pass during your play time as if nothing happened the game could measure your progress in said skills based on a simple equation for percentage it was used that day then increases x amount I mean a lot of that stuff while not simple if handled in an efficient and cool way could make for a game single player or multiplayer ES game that might actually make me fall in love again like morrowind

Each game gets more dumbed down and more simple though some additions like the nice kill animations have improved the games but the retraction of stats star signs and other very immersing features has taken away from the game. In fact I think a few mentioned that in oblivion your skills actually as they increased granted you new attacks and animations that showed you were actually improving where as in skyrim it was hit swing hit swing hit swing with little to no variation in your movements personally I don't even play ES for the combat or any of that it is just the fact of the freedom and the lore that keeps me coming back games that have playing for combat are games more like Witcher 2 or Dark Souls those are games that have combat that is a bit more on base and while difficult it is rewarding and your progression as a character and player while it takes time feels extremely rewarding and I think that ES could benefit from bring things that they have cut out back and things like more refined and progressive combat in to the series


The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination-Voltaire
GM Vlos Hithern actively recruiting EP Guild Check us out!
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes MaxxRocker's post:
Konahrik
Post #80660
Banned

Likes Given: 49
Likes Received: 138
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)

@maxxrocker agreed and liked. thing is though dude is too many Shit games are released that let gamers feed on their appetite for quick fix impulse buying.
Like this post Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)


This fan site is not affiliated with ZeniMax Media Inc. or any of its subsidiaries. Including, but not limited to, Bethesda Game Studios and ZeniMax Online Studios.
The Elder Scrolls® images © ZeniMax Media Inc. / Forum content © TESOF.com