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Combat Targeting


Started by Randy Marsh
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So I don't know if anyone has already asked this but from what I have read on the forum and from interviews I still do not fully understand how combat targeting will work.

For instance if you are a mage/archer and you want to shoot a fireball/arrow at an enemy, will it be simply be just tab over and target the enemy and press your hotbar to hit the enemy like in WoW or will you have to aim your reticule and fire directly at him like in say Skyrim?

Any ideas?
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Post #35120
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You definitely have to do some manual aim. There are a couple interviews with the combat designers that talk about a soft-lock system. Basically, if you're aiming near the person (most likely nearly right at them), the game goes "alright, we know who you're trying to hit". Other videos have talked about having both a soft and hard lock system, meaning if you want you can do a true target lock on something like in Dark Souls. However, that part is just speculation.

Added with the talk of combat roll dodges and active combat, it wouldn't make sense to not force you to do some kind of manual aiming while swinging your sword.
This post was last modified: February 6th 2013, 03:44 PM by vigk vagk v2


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(February 6th 2013, 03:41 PM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: You definitely have to do some manual aim. There are a couple interviews with the combat designers that talk about a soft-lock system. Basically, if you're aiming near the person (most likely nearly right at them), the game goes "alright, we know who you're trying to hit". Other videos have talked about having both a soft and hard lock system, meaning if you want you can do a true target lock on something like in Dark Souls. However, that part is just speculation.

Added with the talk of combat roll dodges and active combat, it wouldn't make sense to not force you to do some kind of manual aiming while swinging your sword.

Without a soft lock or hard lock it be near impossible to single target heal in 200v200v200 PvP Chaos.
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I think the hard/soft lock system could be too close though in making combat grunt work like in WoW though... I'm just going to talk this one out - I agree with you @RajinKajin that there must be some sort of locking with regards to healing, but at the same time I don't know. I imagine that "Touch" spells will still be integrated in the game as well as "Target" spells, so maybe in that PvP chaos, players will need to retreat, or take healers into battle with them in order to get work done. I don't think the combat will be as fast paced and repetitive, I think it will be strategic and intricate. Therefore, I'm not so sure about the need for a locking system. Maybe a loose one, but if there is too much, I think it takes away from the intricacies of "Live Combat."


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(February 6th 2013, 06:55 PM)RajinKajin Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 03:41 PM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: You definitely have to do some manual aim. There are a couple interviews with the combat designers that talk about a soft-lock system. Basically, if you're aiming near the person (most likely nearly right at them), the game goes "alright, we know who you're trying to hit". Other videos have talked about having both a soft and hard lock system, meaning if you want you can do a true target lock on something like in Dark Souls. However, that part is just speculation.

Added with the talk of combat roll dodges and active combat, it wouldn't make sense to not force you to do some kind of manual aiming while swinging your sword.

Without a soft lock or hard lock it be near impossible to single target heal in 200v200v200 PvP Chaos.

there will be some kind of lock on but not like youll imagine it.

Its mostly for differentiating targets.

if you cannot hit someone in the chaos of war. thats your fault.
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I hope the targetting is a little forgiving, just because of latency, I got sick of sitting on someone and getting "Out of range" spammed at me. But I do want to actually have to aim at them instead of target them and spam abilities.


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(February 7th 2013, 05:54 AM)Velaskae Wrote: I hope the targetting is a little forgiving, just because of latency, I got sick of sitting on someone and getting "Out of range" spammed at me. But I do want to actually have to aim at them instead of target them and spam abilities.

i agree, the "out of range" part of mmos drive me crazy! even when the person is right in from of me, but i have to take one more step just to shoot the bastard.

so i'll choose sofl lock so i can play TESO the same way i play skyrim.
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it's mainly from playing a melee and not ranged in my experience, trying to cheapshot/garrote/kidney shot w/e attack for w/e spec I was playing, and being practically on top of my target and yet "Out of range"


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(February 6th 2013, 11:29 PM)Xylvanas Wrote: I think the hard/soft lock system could be too close though in making combat grunt work like in WoW though... I'm just going to talk this one out - I agree with you @RajinKajin that there must be some sort of locking with regards to healing, but at the same time I don't know. I imagine that "Touch" spells will still be integrated in the game as well as "Target" spells, so maybe in that PvP chaos, players will need to retreat, or take healers into battle with them in order to get work done. I don't think the combat will be as fast paced and repetitive, I think it will be strategic and intricate. Therefore, I'm not so sure about the need for a locking system. Maybe a loose one, but if there is too much, I think it takes away from the intricacies of "Live Combat."

I understand the concern of "Live Combat" and losing that typical ES feel for having to aim at your target but I'm looking at it from the view of a mage type character and trying to imagine shooting spells at people from range. If there isn't some sort of hard targeting then it would be nearly impossible to hit enemies especially in 1v1, 2v2, etc. situations.

It appears, though, that will just have to wait and see and hope ZOS can make it work.
This post was last modified: February 7th 2013, 03:02 PM by Randy Marsh
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(February 7th 2013, 02:59 PM)Randy Marsh Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 11:29 PM)Xylvanas Wrote: I think the hard/soft lock system could be too close though in making combat grunt work like in WoW though... I'm just going to talk this one out - I agree with you @RajinKajin that there must be some sort of locking with regards to healing, but at the same time I don't know. I imagine that "Touch" spells will still be integrated in the game as well as "Target" spells, so maybe in that PvP chaos, players will need to retreat, or take healers into battle with them in order to get work done. I don't think the combat will be as fast paced and repetitive, I think it will be strategic and intricate. Therefore, I'm not so sure about the need for a locking system. Maybe a loose one, but if there is too much, I think it takes away from the intricacies of "Live Combat."

I understand the concern of "Live Combat" and losing that typical ES feel for having to aim at your target but I'm looking at it from the view of a mage type character and trying to imagine shooting spells at people from range. If there isn't some sort of hard targeting then it would be nearly impossible to hit enemies especially in 1v1, 2v2, etc. situations.

It appears, though, that will just have to wait and see and hope ZOS can make it work.

its soft targeting. means whatever you are aiming it becomes your "target" for the spell...
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Best explanation I've found so far is from Tamriel Foundry. Guy asked Paul Sage to explain and he got this answer:

"What we can tell you right now is that the targeting system is very similar to what you experienced when you visited us for the preview event. Like in Skyrim, your attacks go where your reticle is aimed. So, while we don’t have traditional tab-targeting, we do have a system where if enemies are close together, you can tab to select the one you wish to hit. Think of this more as an aid to aiming, and this can be especially effective for ranged combat.
All targeting is ultimately based on where your reticle is aimed–when you have your reticle aimed at a monster (or group of monsters) you can lock onto a target and even cycle through a group to select the one you want to attack. In the case of monsters that are closely stacked on each other, the one you have ‘selected’ is the one your attacks will hit. If your reticle is clearly on one target but your target-aid is on another target, you will still hit the target your reticle is on. Also, you must be facing your target to hit them.
There’s a bit more to the targeting and aiming system than that (and we’ll go into more detail in the Ask Us Anything and upcoming combat-centric community content), but hopefully that gives you a general idea. As with anything in development, just keep in mind that this is subject to change."

From this article.
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Great points made here,

I have tbh, I only played Skyrim through the intro scene, had an epic fail jumping out of the tower to hide from the dragon, fell into the fire below and of course got stuck and died.

Worst part was my GF, laughed Hysterically at me for a good hour or so and brings it up just about every time she has a chance.

So what is my point?

My point is, I have watched her play for hours and hours... she plays a mage and I have observed the FPS aspect of the targeting, which I am a big fan of.

I think it would be nice if they had the manual aim, but also made it...FaF..Fire and forget..
ie.. Target is some what stationary... you fire said ranged attack (fireball, arrow, throwing spike, etc) and if your target moves the attack will auto lock similar to a heat seeking missile.

One other thing to go along with this is, will there be Friendly Fire?

Watching her play, you can pretty much brawl or attack anyone in Skyrim...

If we have to deal with window lickers on our own team shooting us instead of the mob or the opposite faction... my head may explode!

Worse yet, like in EQ1 vanilla launch.. you could actually heal the mob and/or hurt your team mate depending on target.

With a FPS targeting system of manual aim... they will need to have some sort of fail safe just to keep my nerd rage to a minimum :)

I can see it now...

Meznotaunt: "Pulling a <mob name> in 5...."

Raid member: Throwing "xyz"... @ <mob name>...dealing 5,000 fire dmg

Meznotaunt: WTF !!!!! How did I just get one shotted??!!!

*ESO* Please, if you have any mercy... put in a fail safe plz...

Mez
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(February 7th 2013, 02:59 PM)Randy Marsh Wrote: I understand the concern of "Live Combat" and losing that typical ES feel for having to aim at your target but I'm looking at it from the view of a mage type character and trying to imagine shooting spells at people from range. If there isn't some sort of hard targeting then it would be nearly impossible to hit enemies especially in 1v1, 2v2, etc. situations.

It appears, though, that will just have to wait and see and hope ZOS can make it work.

I understand the concern that a mage may have, I have the same concerns as an archer, but I feel that if the movement speed is about half as fast as the spell speed, there shouldn't be a HUGE problem, you can probably predict where the target is moving (Especially if they are not facing you), and you can lead them. Idk, I just want to make sure that this game will in fact do as it says it will, find some way to do it, and not rely too much on locking.

(February 7th 2013, 03:34 PM)Mezno Wrote: I think it would be nice if they had the manual aim, but also made it...FaF..Fire and forget..
ie.. Target is some what stationary... you fire said ranged attack (fireball, arrow, throwing spike, etc) and if your target moves the attack will auto lock similar to a heat seeking missile.

Maybe they could have a sort of "event-horizon" where the spell WILL hit the target, or explode and affect the target, if it gets within a certain distance of them?


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there better be somethin that helps players aim, cause all the people who think they are perfect shots in skyrim are gonna come to a rude awakining... apparently theyve never played any shooter game online. any idiot can bob and weave
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I'm looking forward to area spells. I would love to be able to set fire to everyone in a 10 meter radius.....
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