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Could Orcs Be called Deadra?


Started by Plague_Walrus
Post #50919
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Since Orcs are originally Elves and after their leader Trinimac was eaten and regurgitated by Boethia, He became a deadra and his followers turned into what looks like Malakath so are Orc Half Deadra?

(Sorry for bad English couldn't word this properly)


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Post #50929
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i think they are just corrupted mer but i'll have a check
Post #51046
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The Orcs were supposedly created when the Daedric Prince Boethiah defeated the Aldmeri god Trinimac, transforming him into Malacath and his faithful, the Orsimer, into Orcs.
so i dont think they could be called deadra i would say that along with there god their entire race was cursed making them into what they are now
so i think not deadra but an entire race that was cursed


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Post #51096
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No they cannot be called Daedra. The orcs were transformed but not exactly corrupted like Trinmiac. So i would rather say Trinmiac merely transformed them into his image.
After all if they were Daedra they would be considered immortal. Do not speak of Daedra as a singular race btw because they are not. For example, Dremora are a race of daedra.
This post was last modified: March 16th 2013, 03:54 PM by shaun
Post #51098
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Short answer: No

Long answer:
They are not half-daedra. They are Mer, like other elves, just disfigured. In many ways like Chimer, who were cursed into Dunmer after Battle of Red Mountain.

There are several takes on the event, but IIRC the prevalent theory is that (if I'm wrong, someone correct me) Boathiah "possessed" Trinimac and spoke through him to his followers, and these words have changed them, along with their leader, who came out as being called Malacath. We don't know whether this is exactly what happened there, however, even Mal himself said that the story was taken far too literally, so there might be some truth to it.

Also, I'd argue that we don't know whether Malacath is a proper Daedra in the first place. His case may or may not be similar to Meridia, who was originally one of the Magne Ge, "cast down" to Oblivion. Whatever he is, the other Daedric princes certainly don't think much of him, which fits his portfolio as the patron of pariahs.
This post was last modified: March 16th 2013, 04:07 PM by The Rogue Knight
Post #51103
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yeah i think the folks have summed it up.
they are not daedra.

On the notion that Malacath is not a real daedra: he is. If he wasnt, would you also say Sheogorath is not the prince of madness because he was once jyggalag?
It matters not. Malacath is padhome aligned now. Therfor he is daedra.

Definitions are things that puny mortals tend to sort to entities they know little off.
Post #51236
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Well he is considered an outcast (pariah) because he was not one of the original daedra. Maybe the originals would not consider him true Daedra but nonetheless he is part of the band now.

It's the same for the Orcs. They considered pariah folk because they are not the same.
Post #51295
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(March 16th 2013, 04:11 PM)Sordak Wrote: On the notion that Malacath is not a real daedra: he is. If he wasnt, would you also say Sheogorath is not the prince of madness because he was once jyggalag?
It matters not. Malacath is padhome aligned now. Therfor he is daedra.

Jyggalag was a Daedra, so Sheogorath would still be a Daedra. Then again, the Champion of Cyrodiil mantled Sheogorath, so....

I would classify Malacath as a corrupt Aedra, but for all intents and purposes, he is considered a Daedra.


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(March 17th 2013, 07:54 AM)Octagonapus97 Wrote:
(March 16th 2013, 04:11 PM)Sordak Wrote: On the notion that Malacath is not a real daedra: he is. If he wasnt, would you also say Sheogorath is not the prince of madness because he was once jyggalag?
It matters not. Malacath is padhome aligned now. Therfor he is daedra.

Jyggalag was a Daedra, so Sheogorath would still be a Daedra. Then again, the Champion of Cyrodiil mantled Sheogorath, so....

I would classify Malacath as a corrupt Aedra, but for all intents and purposes, he is considered a Daedra.

he *is* a daedra.
his origin is irrelevant.
Post #51305
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They're not Daedra. They're Mer, Elves. The Berserker kind of elves, they were not defeated and cursed like Malacath, and if so, only Malacath is Daedra.
Post #61244
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they are disfigured elves much like the dark elves who originally were the Chimer. Malacath even by other daedra is also not necessarily considered a daedra himself. From what i remember he is sometimes rejected by the others as a real daedric prince. So if he's in question his followers are certainly out of the realm of daedra.
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Snow Elves to Falmer, Chimer to Dunmer, Orsimer to Orcs seems to me that Elves have a bad track record for maintaining the original forms and no Orcs aren't Daedra just another Mer that has fallen victim to physically changes events


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Post #61264
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(March 16th 2013, 04:00 PM)The Rogue Knight Wrote: Short answer: No

Long answer:
They are not half-daedra. They are Mer, like other elves, just disfigured. In many ways like Chimer, who were cursed into Dunmer after Battle of Red Mountain.

There are several takes on the event, but IIRC the prevalent theory is that (if I'm wrong, someone correct me) Boathiah "possessed" Trinimac and spoke through him to his followers, and these words have changed them, along with their leader, who came out as being called Malacath. We don't know whether this is exactly what happened there, however, even Mal himself said that the story was taken far too literally, so there might be some truth to it.

Also, I'd argue that we don't know whether Malacath is a proper Daedra in the first place. His case may or may not be similar to Meridia, who was originally one of the Magne Ge, "cast down" to Oblivion. Whatever he is, the other Daedric princes certainly don't think much of him, which fits his portfolio as the patron of pariahs.

That Trinimac was "possessed" by Boethiah is a well known theory as to how he was was transformed into Malacath, and I commend you for knowing that. There are stories that we do not know the full context of, and unless ZeniMax OS gives us more info on this story, the exact way he was transformed shall ever be a mystery.

One reason that we cannot know and why Malacath says the "eating and excreting" isn't so literal, is that gods work in such mysterious and powerful ways that out own mortal brains could never comprehend the ways and works of them. So when Boethiah described what he did, this was probably the easiest and most offensive/belittling way he could put it.

Back on track, no, orsimer are not Daedra.

Here is some interesting info, with Malacath and Daedra being discussed at the end. Ill just quote if you dont want to look:
http://web.archive.org/web/2009031604333...rson.shtml
----------------------------------------------------------------------
" Ted Peterson:
The origin of the "races", if that's even the proper term for them since many of them can interbreed, is largely speculative and based on myths and traditions. The corruption of the Orsimer is a popular explanation, but many in Tamriel consider them a beast race like the Argonians, thus the term "pig children". Of course, it's very difficult to separate scholarly research into the origin of species without social ramifications. It's a bit fuzzy, the differences between races anyhow. Bretons are considered one of the "man" races of Tamriel, but tradition has them with plenty of ancient mer blood in them. The Khajiit, considered a "beast race" now, may have some ancestors in common with the Mer as well, according to some traditions.

Most people in Tamriel will say there are three main groups of elves -- the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer. The less common strains of Ayleid, Maormer, Falmer, and others would also be considered part of the family. The Orsimer, even most charitably, would be considered a rather distant cousin.

Sinder Velvin:
Very interesting information, Mr. Ted Peterson. Thank you. And now, a question about the words "Daedroth" and "Daedra". A Dark Elf with the profession of Savant would be called a "Dark Elf Savant", and not a "Dark Elves Savant". We use the singular "Dark Elf", not the plural "Dark Elves", in this situation. The singular of "Daedra" is "Daedroth", and yet the Princes of Oblivion are called "Daedra Princes", and not "Daedroth Princes". Is it incorrect to call the Princes of Oblivion "Daedra Princes"? Or is it incorrect to call them "Daedroth Princes"? Or are they both correct?

Ted Peterson:
Ah, the world of semantics. Short answer: Daedra is plural, Daedroth is singular. Long answer: Almost no one uses these terms correctly in Tamriel. Why? Because, just like in our own world, words change meanings out of popular usage. There is a creature simply called a Daedroth, after all: those big, bipedal, reptilian beasts that are the terror of the four corners of Tamriel. Somehow, in ages past, they were given this confusing name, probably by someone who, when asked what that creature was, gave a generic answer which was taken to be a specific one.

This isn't as stange as it seems. If you look up the origin of just about any word, it evolves from the general to the particular. It has come to time in Tamriel where no one, except for a few snooty academics, would say "Daedroth".

As for Daedra Princes/Daedroth Princes, neither is actually correct. Most people would say "Daedra Princes" because, as above, that is the traditional phrase. However, it should be adjective/noun, and therefore "Daedric Princes."

In short, proper grammar and long held traditions seldom meet, in Tamriel or on Earth.

Sinder Velvin:
From now on, you won't hear the words "Daedra Princes" from me again. Anyway, isn't it true that the Tamriellic human races besides Redguards are related to each more than they are related to Redguards...?"
This post was last modified: April 20th 2013, 07:36 AM by Seamus


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They could be called ugly, AMIRITE OR AMIRITE?!


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Post #61511
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Seems they were transformed or changes somewhat like the Chimer became Dunmer. Isn't still calling them Orismer as correct as the word Orcs?


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