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Creating ESO: Cyrodiil’s Keeps


Started by cadian13
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An article talking about the keeps of Cyrodill. For the defender and Attacker.

"Three alliances clash in Cyrodiil. Fierce battles erupt around fortified keeps throughout the region as the Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant, and Aldmeri Dominion struggle to conquer and control more territory. These keeps are critical to each side’s war efforts, and when you venture into Cyrodiil, chances are you’ll find yourself embroiled in the efforts to assault or defend them. In this Creating ESO, we’re taking a closer look at these fortifications." - http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/po...iils-keeps
This post was last modified: December 20th 2013, 10:22 AM by cadian13


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Post #127158
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Looking good, but I'm still hugely disappointed that we will not have player collision. Its a huge part of what makes keep defense style PVP fun, IMO, and without it the combat won't feel 'elderscrollsy'. I get that there could be issues, but the benefits outweigh the positives IMO.




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(December 20th 2013, 11:03 AM)Thorfinn Wrote: Looking good, but I'm still hugely disappointed that we will not have player collision. Its a huge part of what makes keep defense style PVP fun, IMO, and without it the combat won't feel 'elderscrollsy'. I get that there could be issues, but the benefits outweigh the positives IMO.

I agree. Player collision adds a depth of 'realism' to defending. Such as making 'body-blocking' and shield walls viable. Without collision, I fore-see a lot of people grouping in one spot for healing, and just walking through defenders like they were never there.


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They already addressed the whole collision detection issue.
In which they actually experimented with and found that body blocking with shields just didn't work, players still got through.
Plus is a massive massive strain on peoples computers and their server.

Don't get me wrong, id love collision, i think it would be amazing.. Its just not a realistic expectation.


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Goodies! :)
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I saw the picture with a keep that has "destructive stairs" and this idea came to my mind: Can defenders destroy parts of their keep, to slow enemy attack or as a scorched earth tactic when the keep looks like falling into enemy hands?
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(December 20th 2013, 11:03 AM)Thorfinn Wrote: Looking good, but I'm still hugely disappointed that we will not have player collision. Its a huge part of what makes keep defense style PVP fun, IMO, and without it the combat won't feel 'elderscrollsy'. I get that there could be issues, but the benefits outweigh the positives IMO.

Yes you need collision for sure, It's huge In Pvp keep defence and attack.

(December 20th 2013, 11:15 AM)ragnar-ice blood Wrote:
(December 20th 2013, 11:03 AM)Thorfinn Wrote: Looking good, but I'm still hugely disappointed that we will not have player collision. Its a huge part of what makes keep defense style PVP fun, IMO, and without it the combat won't feel 'elderscrollsy'. I get that there could be issues, but the benefits outweigh the positives IMO.

I agree. Player collision adds a depth of 'realism' to defending. Such as making 'body-blocking' and shield walls viable. Without collision, I fore-see a lot of people grouping in one spot for healing, and just walking through defenders like they were never there.

Agreed Ragnar.
This post was last modified: December 20th 2013, 09:16 PM by LordSteel


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(December 20th 2013, 09:13 PM)Hentmereb Wrote: I saw the picture with a keep that has "destructive stairs" and this idea came to my mind: Can defenders destroy parts of their keep, to slow enemy attack or as a scorched earth tactic when the keep looks like falling into enemy hands?

I don't believe this will be the case for the sole reason that internet people are internet people, and you'd have some people destroying your own keep's stairs going "lololol" while everyone else is going, "wtf! stop! I can't reach the battlements to defend the gates!"

This would be most unfortunate to have happen.


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(December 20th 2013, 02:39 PM)Avidus Wrote: They already addressed the whole collision detection issue.
In which they actually experimented with and found that body blocking with shields just didn't work, players still got through.
Plus is a massive massive strain on peoples computers and their server.

Don't get me wrong, id love collision, i think it would be amazing.. Its just not a realistic expectation.

Yes It Is. Other games have had It and done fine It's not new and It's a huge part of PvP In keep attacks. Collision works fine and Is a reasonable expectation without a doubt. Running through people In a keep Is what Is not realistic and just bad.
This post was last modified: December 20th 2013, 09:39 PM by LordSteel


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(December 20th 2013, 09:30 PM)LordSteel Wrote: Yes It Is. Other games have had It and done fine It's not new and It's a huge part of PvP In keep attacks. Collision works fine and Is a reasonable expectation without a doubt. Running through people In a keep Is what Is not realistic and just bad.

First off I am not sure you understand what I mean by realistic.
As in In real life, it is not a realistic expectation that they would include collision in the game.
Nothing to do with how realistic the game is.

Second, Collision is not new, never said it was, however it hasn't be applied in circumstances near similar to what it would be in TESO.
People worry about whether their computers can handle the game as is, but if you add collision, they would have to take away something else from the game so that people could actually play it. Its impossible to make a game run smooth for everybody if the requirements have top end computers running it on low settings.

Third, You failed to read where I said they tried it out and people just walk through player shield walls anyway, where it had no real effect on what would happen.

Fourth off, its just inviting bugs into the game, from experience collision detection programming is a nightmare for encountering bugs.
Especially when the code works fine until its under immense stress then things start going wild, and the last thing we want is the Emperor to be crowned because they became a giant unstoppable Katamari


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(December 20th 2013, 10:33 PM)Avidus Wrote:
(December 20th 2013, 09:30 PM)LordSteel Wrote: Yes It Is. Other games have had It and done fine It's not new and It's a huge part of PvP In keep attacks. Collision works fine and Is a reasonable expectation without a doubt. Running through people In a keep Is what Is not realistic and just bad.

First off I am not sure you understand what I mean by realistic.
As in In real life, it is not a realistic expectation that they would include collision in the game.
Nothing to do with how realistic the game is.

Second, Collision is not new, never said it was, however it hasn't be applied in circumstances near similar to what it would be in TESO.
People worry about whether their computers can handle the game as is, but if you add collision, they would have to take away something else from the game so that people could actually play it. Its impossible to make a game run smooth for everybody if the requirements have top end computers running it on low settings.

Third, You failed to read where I said they tried it out and people just walk through player shield walls anyway, where it had no real effect on what would happen.

Fourth off, its just inviting bugs into the game, from experience collision detection programming is a nightmare for encountering bugs.
Especially when the code works fine until its under immense stress then things start going wild, and the last thing we want is the Emperor to be crowned because they became a giant unstoppable Katamari

First off YES I do understand what you were stating. Once again collision Is a real expectation and YES It could be included In the game without much of a problem, and It's something that was considered. As to the circumstances Teso Is NO different and It would be applied to sieges In PvP combat, which AGAIN has been done before without a problem and can be done In this game as well. Adding collision doesn't mean something else has to be taken away, not at all. As to people walking through shield walls and such, collision isn't meant to stop EVERYONE and all enemies from getting through. If you claim It had NO real affect then that Is just not true. It's a HUGE difference In a game. Bugs with collision are just like anything else that Is just a excuse and not a good one. We also don't want people becoming emperor just because they can run through and not have to encounter collision. Collision Is a great thing for sieges w PvP. You can agree or not but what you are stating isn't true. We know as of now It's not In but hopefully It will be added at some point. We will have to disagree on this one It looks like.
This post was last modified: December 20th 2013, 10:54 PM by LordSteel


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(December 20th 2013, 10:53 PM)LordSteel Wrote: Once again collision Is a real expectation and YES It could be included In the game without much of a problem, and It's something that was considered. As to the circumstances Teso Is NO different and It would be applied to sieges In PvP combat, which AGAIN has been done before without a problem and can be done In this game as well. Adding collision doesn't mean something else has to be taken away, not at all. As to people walking through shield walls and such, collision isn't meant to stop EVERYONE and all enemies from getting through. If you claim It had NO real affect then that Is just not true. It's a HUGE difference In a game. Bugs with collision are just like anything else that Is just a excuse and not a good one. We also don't want people becoming emperor just because they can run through and not have to encounter collision. Collision Is a great thing for sieges w PvP. You can agree or not but what you are stating isn't true.

You are telling me what I am stating isn't true, however you said yourself that it was considered, and its not in the game, 1 + 1, it doesn't work out. TESO is different, every game is different, and the more modern the games get it becomes more difficult to add in such things, what we have in TESO are better graphics than previous MMO's with collision, we have a massive amount of players and mechanics all operating at one time, on a single Megaserver.
You say that the Shield wall is a huge effect in game? is it? because if it is not in the game how can you know this? by other games? different circumstances, different engines, different stress load, different server capabilities.. there are way too many variables to say that.

And again I will state - I Want Collision, it would make the game so tactical on so many levels which is exactly what I want.

It just isn't a realistic request.


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(December 20th 2013, 11:06 PM)Avidus Wrote:
(December 20th 2013, 10:53 PM)LordSteel Wrote: Once again collision Is a real expectation and YES It could be included In the game without much of a problem, and It's something that was considered. As to the circumstances Teso Is NO different and It would be applied to sieges In PvP combat, which AGAIN has been done before without a problem and can be done In this game as well. Adding collision doesn't mean something else has to be taken away, not at all. As to people walking through shield walls and such, collision isn't meant to stop EVERYONE and all enemies from getting through. If you claim It had NO real affect then that Is just not true. It's a HUGE difference In a game. Bugs with collision are just like anything else that Is just a excuse and not a good one. We also don't want people becoming emperor just because they can run through and not have to encounter collision. Collision Is a great thing for sieges w PvP. You can agree or not but what you are stating isn't true.

You are telling me what I am stating isn't true, however you said yourself that it was considered, and its not in the game, 1 + 1, it doesn't work out. TESO is different, every game is different, and the more modern the games get it becomes more difficult to add in such things, what we have in TESO are better graphics than previous MMO's with collision, we have a massive amount of players and mechanics all operating at one time, on a single Megaserver.
You say that the Shield wall is a huge effect in game? is it? because if it is not in the game how can you know this? by other games? different circumstances, different engines, different stress load, different server capabilities.. there are way too many variables to say that.

And again I will state - I Want Collision, it would make the game so tactical on so many levels which is exactly what I want.

It just isn't a realistic request.

It was stated It Is not In the game at this time, a lot was considered and I am Is still being considered. It don't mean It will not work out. Yes history from other games tells us It does and can work, and Is good for the type of thing It would be used for. Teso isn't all that different I am not sure why you are saying that. As to a massive amount of players, well YEA that's O-PvP with objectives It's what sieges are all about, so no difference. As to the shield wall I didn't state that It was huge affect on the game. Collision Is good for a lot of reasons and I said It's a huge thing In sieges w PvP. To your point you can't state It isn't feasible either since as you said the game isn't out and It's not In the game as of now. You are correct though that It makes It a lot more tactical for sure. I will continue to disagree with you It's not a realistic request. I guess we will not agree on this but let's just hope It's great either way and loads of fun.
This post was last modified: December 20th 2013, 11:31 PM by LordSteel


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