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Critical analysis of revealed classes


Started by confusion
Post #3986
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The two classes that were playable for the hands on preview were the Dragon knight and the Templar.

Dragon Knight
These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle spirit, and wield fearsome mason that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them.

Interesting stuff, and plausible that there are akaviri influences in Tamriel at this time, as there were plenty on dispersed akaviri on the continent. Strange that a discipline inspired by the akaviri -who hunted the dragons to extinction- would call themselves dragon knights, but whatever.
Only unique ability I have any info on is a burning chain that damages/stuns an enemy and pulls them to the player. Reminds me of a certain other DK...

Templar
These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies, while restoring health, magicka, and stamina to their allies.

Traveling knight, that's fine, common enough etc, draw their power from.... the sun. Magnus, I guess? True, magicka flows in through magnus from aetherius, but that just seems like a very vague and awkward way of putting it. It's like saying the oil and gas that runs vehicles are "the power of the earth".
Abilities we know of are sun fire, sun strike, reckless attacks, and rushed ceremony. I like the Rushed Ceremony (an AoE heal) because it's reminiscent of the clever spell naming that was the norm in Morrowind.

The rest though... this bizarre talk of the sun sticks out, and makes me realize that in all the magical abilities that have been revealed, there has yet to be a single mention of any of the schools of magic that encompass ALL spells in TES universe. True, it has been a thousand years and things change (they had no trouble shuffling off Mysticism in the 200 years from oblivion to skyrim), and perhaps the schools have not been as thoroughly researched and finalized; the 'power of the sun' may be a primitive school of sorts in an earlier classification system of magic.
The problem I have with this explanation is that it feels like me making stuff up to cover for devs who didn't do the research in a big way, and it makes me wary of what's to come.
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Post #3988
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well im not a fan on the templar. the Dragon Knight makes sense in name because the Akaviri use dragons as a Symbol.

Actually id like to know if the classes are Faction specific. Doesnt make much sense on the Templar, but the Dragon Knight fits for the Ebonheart Pact as they have been in contact with the Akaviri in the recent time.
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Post #3989
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(October 25th 2012, 12:54 PM)Sordak Wrote: Doesnt make much sense on the Templar, but the Dragon Knight fits for the Ebonheart Pact as they have been in contact with the Akaviri in the recent time.

Now that I think about it the Pact's official backstory states that the three races initially came together to repel the invading akaviri forces, which makes this class pretty ironic actually.

And imo the templar doesn't make much sense period.
This post was last modified: October 25th 2012, 01:01 PM by confusion
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Post #3995
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its not ironic at all. The akaviri have a tendency of blending into the cultures of others, and leaking into them after beeing defeated, for they usually offer their services to the victors.

Also it means that the Ebonheart Pact got some large exposure to their nature of combat, and likeley got influenced by them as they are quite a bit more advanced than anything on Tamriel, at least its implied to be that way in the lore.
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Post #4076
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Templar should draw his powers from the Divines, mentioning Templar as some sort of solar based caster is very strange. Even the word Templar suggests they belong to faction surrounding the temples of the Divine. Instead the description resemble your friendly neighbour Paladin. Well its Alpha, should get fixed

Dragon knight seems fine to me, perhaps there might be even explanation to their powers by inheriting some blood of the Dovah, pretty much like Wardens of Dragon age. At the end of the day, we know for sure the bloodline will survive for a next 1000 years


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Post #4079
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as far as i know the divines dont grant any "spell" power. Magic comes from Magnus. The divine CAN grant artifacts and boons, but not in the magnitude of allowing a whole class draw its spells from them.
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Post #4081
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You are right, I checked the wiki and it says magic is "raw energy that flows from Aetherius into Mundus by way of the sun and stars"

Perhaps that is where the solar reference come from. Lets hope there wont be a night cycle where Templars could shoot their sunbolts. I had enough of underwater fireballs, thank you very much
This post was last modified: October 26th 2012, 07:20 AM by Rage


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Post #4085
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(October 26th 2012, 07:19 AM)Rage Wrote: You are right, I checked the wiki and it says magic is "raw energy that flows from Aetherius into Mundus by way of the sun and stars"

Perhaps that is where the solar reference come from. Lets hope there wont be a night cycle where Templars could shoot their sunbolts. I had enough of underwater fireballs, thank you very much

I actually sent the game's twitter account a message asking whether the templar still had powers at night, no reply though. Now that I think about it if that's where all magic comes from, nobody else ever has trouble casting at night, so neither should templars. sounds to me like the class is just a typical spellsword who is perhaps confused about the source of their power. Could be fun to RP, but I do think we should probably harass them about it.
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Post #4125
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well casters have power at night too.

you see TES works a bit differenlty. ALL the magic comes from the sun. For the sun is the hole magnus left in the sky. Mundus is not realy a universe as we know it. the "planet" nirn and lorkahns corpse are actually the center (at least most sources claim so) and there is no sun. Like a ball of gas. the sun is a literal hole in the sky, and it leads to aetherius wich lies behind the sky. the other galaxies we see are actually daedric realms.
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Post #4146
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(October 26th 2012, 01:26 PM)Sordak Wrote: well casters have power at night too.

you see TES works a bit differenlty. ALL the magic comes from the sun. For the sun is the hole magnus left in the sky. Mundus is not realy a universe as we know it. the "planet" nirn and lorkahns corpse are actually the center (at least most sources claim so) and there is no sun. Like a ball of gas. the sun is a literal hole in the sky, and it leads to aetherius wich lies behind the sky. the other galaxies we see are actually daedric realms.

We are aware of all this, I'm just worried that ZOS perhaps is not. To say the templar uses 'the power of the sun' in this context just means 'he uses magic', which is pointlessly vague. It's more likely that they are referring to the sun as an entity and source of a very specific kind of magic, which probably means massive lore breakage and seeing hints of it so early means it could be just the tip of the iceberg.
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Post #4147
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look at the official site, it looks like their loremaster knows what hes doing. there is an interview / lore explanation panel with him on the front page.

i liked it when he said he was treating TES history like real one. Wich is neat. Especialy since in my mind i still remember how to get from point a to point b in morrowind like i would in my home city. thats fucking weird!
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Post #4153
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(October 26th 2012, 02:10 PM)Sordak Wrote: look at the official site, it looks like their loremaster knows what hes doing. there is an interview / lore explanation panel with him on the front page.

i liked it when he said he was treating TES history like real one. Wich is neat. Especialy since in my mind i still remember how to get from point a to point b in morrowind like i would in my home city. thats fucking weird!

I read that too and was quite satisfied, but there is the possibility of a major disconnect between that guy working with the writers, and the people designing the combat who might just be making shit up.

I've been harassing them about this stuff on twitter, but recently they are content to ignore the pointed questions and instead keep giving the same responses to idiots asking about skyrim dlc and console support :/
This post was last modified: October 26th 2012, 02:50 PM by confusion
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Post #4181
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(October 26th 2012, 02:48 PM)confusion Wrote: I read that too and was quite satisfied, but there is the possibility of a major disconnect between that guy working with the writers, and the people designing the combat who might just be making shit up.

I've been harassing them about this stuff on twitter, but recently they are content to ignore the pointed questions and instead keep giving the same responses to idiots asking about skyrim dlc and console support :/

I suppose that is right way to go, literally harrasing them since at this stage much is still subject to change. Confy is probably right about random dev thinking "ok now we need a plate mail class with some spells, like a paladin but with less pink. Lets call it Templar and lets say he will cast spells with nice yellow glow ... ye sun spells perhaps".
And it goes off, not thinking of concept of magic, or the fact that the word Templar indicate connection to temples (lets pray they include them as factions too, like in Daggerfall, that would be something).

That should really be stopped, we dont need this guy to invent new classes, we want him to pick battlemage or spellsword.
This post was last modified: October 26th 2012, 03:46 PM by Rage


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Post #4213
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(October 25th 2012, 12:46 PM)confusion Wrote: Templar
These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies, while restoring health, magicka, and stamina to their allies.

Traveling knight, that's fine, common enough etc, draw their power from.... the sun. Magnus, I guess? True, magicka flows in through magnus from aetherius, but that just seems like a very vague and awkward way of putting it. It's like saying the oil and gas that runs vehicles are "the power of the earth".
Abilities we know of are sun fire, sun strike, reckless attacks, and rushed ceremony. I like the Rushed Ceremony (an AoE heal) because it's reminiscent of the clever spell naming that was the norm in Morrowind.

Maybe it should be mentioned that Dawnguard introduced Sun damage and spells to Skyrim as well. It's definitely part of the Restoration school and specifically created against the undead. It fits the Templar theme just fine in my opinion.

I agree on the spell naming, though.
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Post #4236
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(October 26th 2012, 10:00 PM)Faulgor Wrote: Maybe it should be mentioned that Dawnguard introduced Sun damage and spells to Skyrim as well. It's definitely part of the Restoration school and specifically created against the undead. It fits the Templar theme just fine in my opinion.

I agree on the spell naming, though.

I was definitely not aware of that, haven't finished dawnguard. If these sun attacks all belong to the school of restoration then we may be approaching a solution to this, though damaging spells should only work on undead or vampires, but it's better than nothing.
Could the Dawnguard be using remnants of a long-forgotten discipline of magic that was found to be particularly effective against vampirism, before the curmudgeons in the mages guild dissolved it into destruction and restoration like they would later do with Mysticism?
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