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Cross provinces?


Started by Acrion Valmir
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Watch any video in which they discuss it. They always use the word choose. Check the recent Paul sage q and a. Like the second question asks more about endgame and he mentions going into "any alliance after completing the zones of your original alliance." since this is designed for those wanting to enjoy solo questing and content more than group based content I don't think splitting people up like that's bad. There will still be plenty of people to see, but this content will be more for hardcore TES fans just wanting a new TES experience and caring nothing for the MMO side, or completionists wanting to "finish" all the content they can.

Group content will be there, don't worry. The adventure zones and cyrodiil and master dungeons are there for group content in endgame.


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I agree with Ferroc on this. In every video that I've seen, I don't recall ever once hearing them say that you have to complete the other factions in a certain order. It's always been the word "choose". While yes, it may split the community a bit more but if we hit level cap (a supposed 150 hour endeavor) I feel a player has earned the right to choose what area to do next.


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I think they use the word "choose" because you can choose to go do the content or not, but I don't think you can choose the faction you go to. If you could choose the second and third faction areas to complete in the order you wanted it would spread the community too thin. In the other faction zones you will only see players from your faction, lets suppose 10 players get to 50 in the Ebonheart Pact, 5 of them choose to go Aldemeri, the other 5 Daggerfall, suddenly the world feels more empty for both groups because while 5 are on one area the other 5 went to the other area. If they want to keep the zones alive and the community together they will choose the order for you, it is the smart decision.

Not only that, difficulty escalation also comes into it. If when you get to 50 you can choose any of the other two factions it becomes harder for them to tune difficulty, both zones will have to be tuned for a character that recently got to 50 to be able to do them. That means that once you finish the second zone and go to the third it will be easy, as you got all of this gear and spent time at level 50 already and now you are more powerful and experienced. While if they choose the order for you they can tune the third faction territory to be much harder, considering that a recent 50 will never go in there, only people who have completed the second faction will. The final faction zone then will be more challanging and take more time to complete, also providing better rewards and a better sense of progression.

So I think (and also hope) my interpretation and Isarii's are correct, it will be a problem if you can choose the order.
This post was last modified: July 25th 2013, 02:59 AM by LGAllastair


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(July 25th 2013, 02:50 AM)LGAllastair Wrote: I think they use the word "choose" because you can choose to go do the content or not, but I don't think you can choose the faction you go to. If you could choose the second and third faction areas to complete in the order you wanted it would spread the community too thin. In the other faction zones you will only see players from your faction, lets suppose 10 players get to 50 in the Ebonheart Pact, 5 of them choose to go Aldemeri, the other 5 Daggerfall, suddenly the world feels more empty for both groups because while 5 are on one area the other 5 went to the other area. If they want to keep the zones alive and the community together they will choose the order for you, it is the smart decision.

Not only that, difficulty escalation also comes into it. If when you get to 50 you can choose any of the other two factions it becomes harder for them to tune difficulty, both zones will have to be tuned for a character that recently got to 50 to be able to do them. That means that once you finish the second zone and go to the third it will be easy, as you got all of this gear and spent time at level 50 already and now you are more powerful and experienced. While if they choose the order for you they can tune the third faction territory to be much harder, considering that a recent 50 will never go in there, only people who have completed the second faction will. The final faction zone then will be more challanging and take more time to complete, also providing better rewards and a better sense of progression.

So I think (and also hope) my interpretation and Isarii's are correct, it will be a problem if you can choose the order.

Your second point is redundant. If they're being split up and put in a different version of the faction area depending on what order they go in, then they can scale the area based on if that was your first or second pick (which is how it sounds like they're planning on doing it based on interviews anyway). However, I do consider the community being split up as a legitimate concern. It's just one that I feel that weighing the pros and cons, being able to choose the next area for yourself is better.

Here's why: It's about trying to stay close to a TES game which is incredibly important to many people (myself included). In TES, we're used to going wherever we want, whenever we want. They're already limiting our exploration with leveled areas and the fact that we can't go into other factions right away. Yes, I know we have 3 provinces + Cyrodiil (a very large area), but the fact that there's a wall there saying "You can't go here even though it's playable area" is new to TES players and they generally don't like that. By giving players this one decision though, it lets players still feel like they have the reigns of where to explore. Telling TES players "You have to complete the factions in a certain order" is far too linear to stay true to the series.
This post was last modified: July 25th 2013, 09:04 AM by vigk vagk v2


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If you have a source for why you think that @LGAllastair, that'd be awesome. Whenever I hear them talking about this, they always use the word choose to describe choosing a faction to go to next. That leads me to believe they don't have a predetermined path, and that it would be us deciding where to go.

Now as far as the levelling zones, and how that's restricting, I think that generally that's a mental thing. Yeah it sounds limiting, but remember all the TES games have had limitations in them. There's always been a point where you would be kept from moving forward, meet an invisible wall, etc. You can't go back into Cyrodiil when playing Skyrim. The playing area is huge, though, so no one really thinks about it. I'm hoping that's the case with ESO. Yeah, it does sound limiting when they say zones will be scaled to certain levels and to feel progression you'll move through your faction's content based on level, and it is something to justifiably be concerned about. But perhaps they'll capture that TES feel well enough within each of the ones that we won't really notice.


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(July 24th 2013, 07:02 PM)Isarii Wrote:
(July 24th 2013, 05:23 PM)Ferroc Wrote: You can as a player choose which faction you advance to. It isn't like "I'm a DC character moving on to the next faction. It seems I hafta go do the AD content first." When you hit fifty, you choose another faction to move on to. You are in a sort of phase there with anyone else who chose to go to that specific faction. Then when that's done you move on to the next. That faction will be phased with players who chose the same way you did.

I'm fairly certain that's not the case, but the odds are that this particular design decision may not be finalized yet. Out of curiosity though, do you have a source definitively stating that?

I can't remember mine because frankly I see too much ESO related media to ever keep track of it all (and you may very well be in the same boat). I do have to say that your system would definitely have a lot of problems, most importantly, splitting up the population based on the order they chose to advance, and that if that is the case, then they should rethink their position.

I could be wrong as well. I'm not absolutely certain by any means.

Okay, this'll be a crazy quote because I googled but am at work and cannot open this link ... but I figure you guys can:

Here is the quote:
ZeniMax's Paul Sage on The Elder Scrolls Online's endgame, PvP ...
massively.joystiq.com/2013/.../the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sa...‎

Mar 19, 2013 - In ESO, you choose one of three alliances, each with different zones, quests, and stories to explore. Once you hit level 50, you can choose to ... that's where the search page ends.

Here is the link:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/...paul-sage/
This post was last modified: July 25th 2013, 09:53 AM by CedarLilly


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@Ferroc - here's the quote from @CedarLilly's (kudos, btw) link:

Quote:In ESO, you choose one of three alliances, each with different zones, quests, and stories to explore. Once you hit level 50, you can choose to journey to another alliance's territory and experience a more difficult (and rewarding) version of those areas. After you complete the story within in the second alliance, you can travel to the third faction and complete the content there.

Here you can see exactly what @LGAllastair is referring to - Paul Sage says you can "choose to journey to another alliance's territory", not you can choose which alliance's territory to journey to; this is an enormous difference.

If anything, I would read this is affirmation (but hardly confirmation) of my and Allastair's theory because alliances are referred to as the second and the third alliances, which implies a standard order of progression. That is of course a very slight affirmation though, and definitely not definitive proof of anything.

(July 25th 2013, 09:03 AM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: It's about trying to stay close to a TES game which is incredibly important to many people (myself included). In TES, we're used to going wherever we want, whenever we want. They're already limiting our exploration with leveled areas and the fact that we can't go into other factions right away. Yes, I know we have 3 provinces + Cyrodiil (a very large area), but the fact that there's a wall there saying "You can't go here even though it's playable area" is new to TES players and they generally don't like that. By giving players this one decision though, it lets players still feel like they have the reigns of where to explore. Telling TES players "You have to complete the factions in a certain order" is far too linear to stay true to the series.

Given that we already have level-locked zone progression though, is this really a valid point to bring up? The feature you're bringing up (freedom of exploration) has already been sacrificed in probably the largest way possible to fit exploration to ESO's design, so what makes you think they would bend the quality of the design to fit that feature here, where there are very real downsides to its inclusion? I'm all for a level-less Firefall or TSW-esque system in ESO, but it's more than clear that that isn't an experience they are interested in delivering.
This post was last modified: July 25th 2013, 06:40 PM by Isarii


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While that article does seem to lean one way, I really stick to my theory that it's a choice. Every other time I've heard something it always seems to be referenced to as a choice. This time may have just been the use of words which may have confused the intended meaning, but I'm gonna stick to my guns on this. Unless we get a definite answer to this in an AuA or something, we won't truly know till release.


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(July 25th 2013, 06:31 PM)Isarii Wrote:
(July 25th 2013, 09:03 AM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: It's about trying to stay close to a TES game which is incredibly important to many people (myself included). In TES, we're used to going wherever we want, whenever we want. They're already limiting our exploration with leveled areas and the fact that we can't go into other factions right away. Yes, I know we have 3 provinces + Cyrodiil (a very large area), but the fact that there's a wall there saying "You can't go here even though it's playable area" is new to TES players and they generally don't like that. By giving players this one decision though, it lets players still feel like they have the reigns of where to explore. Telling TES players "You have to complete the factions in a certain order" is far too linear to stay true to the series.

Given that we already have level-locked zone progression though, is this really a valid point to bring up? The feature you're bringing up (freedom of exploration) has already been sacrificed in probably the largest way possible to fit exploration to ESO's design, so what makes you think they would bend the quality of the design to fit that feature here, where there are very real downsides to its inclusion? I'm all for a level-less Firefall or TSW-esque system in ESO, but it's more than clear that that isn't an experience they are interested in delivering.

That's exactly my point. We're already limited enough as it is, and that was from the fact that it was absolutely needed since our characters level up in a somewhat classical MMO way. I don't think ZOS would limit the exploration even further when it's not needed to be limited for this scenario.


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What about the Elder Scrolls, we are to put them in our Alliance base, correct? Is this base in Cyrodil or will pvp be allowed in some area of the Alliance's territory?


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(July 25th 2013, 08:03 PM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote:
(July 25th 2013, 06:31 PM)Isarii Wrote:
(July 25th 2013, 09:03 AM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: It's about trying to stay close to a TES game which is incredibly important to many people (myself included). In TES, we're used to going wherever we want, whenever we want. They're already limiting our exploration with leveled areas and the fact that we can't go into other factions right away. Yes, I know we have 3 provinces + Cyrodiil (a very large area), but the fact that there's a wall there saying "You can't go here even though it's playable area" is new to TES players and they generally don't like that. By giving players this one decision though, it lets players still feel like they have the reigns of where to explore. Telling TES players "You have to complete the factions in a certain order" is far too linear to stay true to the series.

Given that we already have level-locked zone progression though, is this really a valid point to bring up? The feature you're bringing up (freedom of exploration) has already been sacrificed in probably the largest way possible to fit exploration to ESO's design, so what makes you think they would bend the quality of the design to fit that feature here, where there are very real downsides to its inclusion? I'm all for a level-less Firefall or TSW-esque system in ESO, but it's more than clear that that isn't an experience they are interested in delivering.

That's exactly my point. We're already limited enough as it is, and that was from the fact that it was absolutely needed since our characters level up in a somewhat classical MMO way. I don't think ZOS would limit the exploration even further when it's not needed to be limited for this scenario.

My point is that the opposite is true - it wasn't needed the first time, and it is needed this time. They've already shown that they don't care about having this feature, so why think they would care about it in this relatively minor way?


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I think they have shown they do care but are still bound by the genre and trying to attract those MMO fans as well. The level zones are huge, and make it possible to feel sorta like you can walk in any direction and find something new, just can't walk forever, while still feeling the progression. They do want that TES feel, just with an MMO wrapper I spose. Besides this is a pretty simple feature, I would think. It'd be something they could implement easily.


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They needed to have leveled zones to keep difficulty up while doing PvE. If enemies never scaled up, it would just be a face roll for anyone leveled up and impossibly difficult for people starting out. Therefore, the leveled zones popped up. Unfortunately by it's very nature the leveled zones impede exploration. If you know a way around this without completely changing all of the game mechanics, I would love to hear it. And as for no cross-faction hopping right off the bat, there are legitimate reasons (*cough* racially divided war *cough*) why you wouldn't be able to just switch sides. Being able to switch sides whenever you want is also bad game design since people will just leave the losing faction to go join the bigger one. So yes, the limiters to exploration are pretty needed in this regard.

However, I see absolutely no reason why they HAVE to choose for you for your 50+ order of factions. Yes, not having enough people can be a legitimate concern, and I sympathize with you on that. However, a big part of TES is exploration. Letting you choose the order of your 50+ zones is their way of saying "We're trying to keep this as much of a TES game as possible". Personally I would much rather choose the order of my faction hopping than see more people. I highly doubt I'll be the fastest leveling person in the game so there will be people popping into the area at the same time as me. I think there will be plenty of people (for me at least) no matter which area I go into first.


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^ not to mention that avenue of gameplay is designed for solo or small group play


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Well, what they NEEDED to do (in your opinion) is irrelevant, what matters is what they are doing, at least to this discussion. And I do believe the order of the 50+ and 50++ zones will be chosen for you depending on your faction because of the reasons me and Isarii explained, you really haven't brought any relevant arguments as to why they would let us choose nor addressed any of the problems I posed, all you posted is what you want, and while I respect that, it adds nothing to the discussion.


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