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Disappearance of the Dwarves: The Calling and CHIM


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(I also posted this treatise on teso-rp.com as well, thought I'd maximize target audience for fun food for thought.)

A brief disclaimer before I get into this: I do not perpetuate any of the beliefs discussed within as canonical, anything dealing with the Tower, CHIM, and the Godhead are up to great speculation. That being said, let me begin.

The thesis of this post is my belief that the "Disappearance of the Dwarves," that most elluding of TES questions, was due in part to a massive amount of zero-summing in regards to obtaining CHIM.

To explain this point we must first discover - very briefly - what CHIM is. The Aurbis, which is the collective universe of the Elder Scrolls franchise, is represented chiefly by the wheel. The eight spokes (not of Chaos, my Warhammer 40k fans) are the Aetherius, the spaces/voids between representing the 16 Daedric planes of Oblivion (I know that this does not make sense as their should only be 8, but that's how the lore is written) and the hub/center of the wheel is the Arena, that is Mundus which is Nirn and all of the Aedra-planets: the material plane where the games take place. This is the basic cosmology of TES, but the real secret comes from turning the wheel on the side.

To understand further the significance of this allow me to quote Michael Kirkbride, one of the previous developers and continuing freelance writer for the Elder Scrolls universe:

"What is the hub of the Wheel? We are the hub, the Mundus that goes by many names. We are the heart of all creation. What does this mean? Why should we care? Lorkhan created it so that we could find what he did. In fact, and here is the secret: the hub is the reflection of its creators, the circle within the circle, only the border to ours is so much easier to see. Stand in its flux and remain whole of mind. Look at it sideways and see the "I". This is the tower."

Achieving CHIM is when you reside -within- the Tower, it's when you live inside the Wheel. This brings us to the Godhead, and back to the 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 21 - specifically the 8th Scripture of the Wheel:

"The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, I."

This is referring to the Godhead. The Godhead is unknown to all of existence save maybe Lorkhan because he "created [Mundus] so that we could find what he did." It represents everything, the whole of the subgradient Aurbis, from Joe-Bob to Padomay and Anu, all of it merely the dream within this Godhead. The idea is that the universe is a dream, similar to Mark Twain's "A Mysterious Stranger." Achieving CHIM is to realize this without zero-summing.

Zero-summing is what happens when you try to take you (+1) and then equate it to the notion that you are merely a dream of a god, and therefore not real (-1) and thus losing your personal identity. 1-1=0, disappearing from the Aurbis and existence entirely as that part of the dream "wakes up" once you realize it. It is to realize that you are everything, and everything is you but still being able to say "I," the true name of god, to retain your individuality and not "disappear in a puff of logic" as per Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The only known person to have achieved CHIM is Vivec, and -maybe- Talos, which is why he was able to mantle a god.

Now that the really heavy part of the lore is out of the way - or at least the parts that I need to explain to go into the Dwemer - I can continue on.

The Dwemer have an ability called "The Calling" which is essentially extremely long-ranged telepathy and it was even believed to have been used by Kagrenac right before he attempted to exploit the powers of the heart to summon the entirety of the Dwemer people to him. Because of this ability, I believe that when/if Kagrenac tapped into the Heart of Lorkhan he was able to "find what Lorkhan did," and when he saw the Godhead the knowledge was immediately transferred into the whole of the Dwarven people - with the exception of Yagrum Bagarn as he was currently doing the Daedra jaunt through Oblivion - and, being unprepared for this revelation, the species zero-summed as a whole.

In the end, their gods of Reason and Logic were their downfall, as it would have been the only logical assumption to a people like that.

And that's about all I have on that, once again not necessarily canonical, only my interpretation on Michael Kirkbride and associate's cryptic terminology.
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Post #60524
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wrong.

Throwing CHIM at everything is the sureway of getting laughed at in the lore community.
only Vekh and Hjalti/Talos/Tiber achieved it.

but because you obviously have *some* knowledge of TES lore ill give you a quick rundown of the possibilities.

The main thing is that Kagrenacs calculations were wrong, the egg of time makes this claim.
Obviously the egg of time was correct.

To understand what the Dwemer tried to achieve you must not only understand the idea of the Godhead.
but also the idea of sub-gradients.

Everything is a subgradient to godhead. Because I ARE ALL WE yadda yadda.
Thus Godhead -> Anu/Padomai -> Ehlnofey (among others) -> mer/men/beasts/vekhs dick

Also the idea of the cyclic kalpas

The Dwemer werent too happy with that.
in fact, nobody is. In some way you could say what the Dwemer tried to achieve is a more Lorkahnic (and in that sense more advanced) way to what the Thalmor are attempting right now.

There are two major goals for all entities in the TES universe: 1: Break out of the Kalpic circle.
How do you do that? well becoming a god is one thing. Achieving CHIM is the next step. As even gods can fall prey to it (See: the fall of Lyg, the fate of the Dreugh)
2: Amaranth. so you might have heard about this term. the simple version is "one step above CHIM"
What does that mean tho? Well it means breaking out of the system of Sub-gradients and becoming the new dreamer (note: Godhead = mad dreamer that cannot awake and so on..)

So what did the Dwemer tried to achieve?
Well the way the Dwemer wanted to go is the way of Animunculi, or "Little Soul"
After the dawn (not to confuse with "the middle dawn" which is a term that pops up alot in marukathi related lore) the little souls began splitting up (again see: subgradients)
So what the dwemer tried to do, in very simplified terms (you can read the whole thing on TIL just type in dwemer chances are youll find it) , is to "glue them back together" in some way.

The Idea was that the Dwemer wanted, their collective race, to join together in Animunculi by becoming the Bronze Skin of Akulakahn, the Anumidium (who is not the Brass-Walk tower, thats the Numidium, the brass god)
If that sounds strangeley familliar to what the Altmer are trying to achieve (as in: return to the dawn, uncoil the serpent and let the primal ada flow without beeing hindered) well it kinda is. Ish.

The thing is that while the Dwemer were Atheists, they did understand Lorkahns teachings alot better than the Altmer. Mainly because they did not madly dispise him and blame him.
They saw his gift that he made with his ultimate failure. The possibility of Amaranth. or perhaps they werent quite that far.
At any rate thats most likeley what they were trying to achieve.

On the CHIM side of things. you might notice the Dwemer symbol of the "Scarab" well the Scarab represents CHIM. In their understanding at the very least.

Does this somehow mean they achieved CHIM? no.
No one race does not simply collectiveley achieve CHIM from a miscalculation.
Did they Zero Sum? (wich is more plausible considering the analytical way of thinking that this race implies, therfor 1 + (-1) = 0) probably not.
Otherwise they would have caused a Dragon Break which AGAIN is a term you should NOT throw around at any occasion.

What happened? Well the Dwemer un-created themselves.
How is this different from Zero summing?
Well Zero-Summing is realizing you dont exist (Therfor not existing)
Un - Creating is reversing the act of ones own creation.

If you think about it, it was halfway what they wanted.
They wanted to un-create themselves to create Anumidium / Become Animunculi.
"To create divinity from the death of the mundane " which is the exact opposit of the saccrifice of the eartbones "To create mundane from the death of divinity"

How exactly this entails of course is subject to great speculation

So you might ask: is there any evidence? well damn yes there is: The Dwemer metal, the animunculi (automatons) and the case of the falmer.

One thing is certain. Dwemer metal doesnt rust. Dwemer metal is still functioning after all that time. BUT the Dwemer Automatons usually cease working when too far away from the Dwemer cities.
Also the evidence is clear that the Dwemer did experiment with souls.
What conclusion does that lead us to? The Dwemer were tinkering with exactly what they were going to turn themselves into. Animunculi.
Souls becoming the Divine skin of their creations.


Yeah i know that all is not very presentable and its also not a good answer.
Mostly cause all of this is, largeley, speculative in nature.
Id suggest checking out the TIL page about it.
This post was last modified: April 17th 2013, 02:26 AM by Sordak
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Post #60525
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Whats CHIM?

*Dodges punches slaps and rotten vegetables*


"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." -Kurt Cobain
"Failure, in my book, is someone who lives in the safety of their laptop taking shots at those who actually achieved what they have been unable to do." -Eli Roth
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(April 17th 2013, 02:07 AM)Seamus Wrote: Whats CHIM?

*Dodges punches slaps and rotten vegetables*



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(April 17th 2013, 02:32 AM)Sordak Wrote:
(April 17th 2013, 02:07 AM)Seamus Wrote: Whats CHIM?

*Dodges punches slaps and rotten vegetables*




Good god that made me laugh XD!


"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." -Kurt Cobain
"Failure, in my book, is someone who lives in the safety of their laptop taking shots at those who actually achieved what they have been unable to do." -Eli Roth
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Hahaha wow.. but so to my understanding (considering I'm not extremely familiar with the lore, just somewhat) the dwemer were in essence just trying to transfer their souls into the automatons, or more powerful versions of them? So is it possible since they still work today that they succeeded, or are these automatons only the experiments resulting from dwemer toying with souls?


Tyrvan Southpaw - a Nordic Skaal hunter
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Post #60675
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nah.
from what we know the regular centurion spheres and stuff are not actually dwemer souls.

no they wanted to collectiveley transfer their souls into the skin of anumidium to create animunculi, or little soul.
And in that sense "go up" the ladder of sub gradients.
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Post #70337
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(April 17th 2013, 02:05 AM)Sordak Wrote: wrong.

Throwing CHIM at everything is the sureway of getting laughed at in the lore community.
only Vekh and Hjalti/Talos/Tiber achieved it.

I wholeheartedly disagree
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(June 9th 2013, 02:10 PM)Nexx Wrote:
(April 17th 2013, 02:05 AM)Sordak Wrote: wrong.

Throwing CHIM at everything is the sureway of getting laughed at in the lore community.
only Vekh and Hjalti/Talos/Tiber achieved it.

I wholeheartedly disagree

Well, Sordak is banned, it´s pointless to tell him you don´t share his opinion... by the way, want to Elaborate it? ;)


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK-WXrOho...creen&NR=1
This post was last modified: June 15th 2013, 05:17 PM by CedarLilly


TESO - - Multiplayer: "M'aiq does not know this word. You wish others to help you in your quest? Coward! If you must, search for the Argonian Im-Leet, or perhaps the big Nord, Rolf the Uber. They will certainly wish to join you." M'aiq the Liar.

"Va Khaj Dar - Khajiity's united? M'aiq will join!" M'aiq the Liar
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