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Economy In TESO


Started by Kilivin
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---------Introduction----------
While I have heard people saying they don't want an auction house so we'd get the whole feel of a dynamic economy without a middle man. I'm sure there are other better reasons as to why there shouldn't be an Auction House. I also had an idea on how to make a flowing economy that doesn't rely on players, but the faction and NPCs as a whole. I might throw in the idea of there being a Merchant's Guild as well, but that's the more far fetched idea of mine.

Faction & Interfaction Auctions
I had the idea of making two separate Auction Houses. One of which sells items only to those in your faction, and another which sells items to anyone of any faction. When an auction is sold for your faction, you gain reputation as well as gold for your faction. It also will give a positive bonus to the war effort in Cyrodil. However, it does not increase your mercantile skill as much when selling to a smaller amount of people (your faction only.) When a player sells to all factions, you may have more chance to sell and get more money, but if a player from an opposing faction buys it, you lose reputation with your faction. I thought this a good way to tie in the economy with the war between factions.

NPC Auctioning
What I mean by this is that NPCs are also into buying and selling items on the auction house. When an NPC of your faction's war effort buys an item, you gain reputation just like if he/she was a player. NPC's also will sell items depending on the price currently on the AH. It would be random in a way whether or not they sell items on faction only or cross faction auction houses. Also, don't think that NPCs will be getting all the money & it goes to nothing. The money that NPCs get will go towards their faction's war effort. So, buying from an NPC of your own faction helps both of you out!

Of course, I can imagine this being quite difficult to program, and it might feel a little strange seeing NPCs selling items when you never see them at Auction houses or what not. Again, this is just a concept which I haven't fully thought of the realism behind it, but I feel if perfected could really make a flowing economy with or without players involved. Also, the NPCs would have the same flow of finding great items as anybody else. If there were a way to even make the chance they find all the epic items not possible I would be all for it. I mean for the NPCs using the Auction House to specifically target common to rare items but not all the epic ones. There again, if the percentage and rate that they find/sell the epic items were low enough I see no reason why it could also be added. Again, I know this would be really hard to program, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. . right? Winking_tongue_out

Black Market
This would not only be the market for stolen items, but also a market for items of illegal powers. I can imagine loremasters will be enraged by this thought, but I was thinking Daedric items could be illegal for both types of Auction Houses. Items so evil and demonic sort of thought to be shunned and outcasted. Again, I'd imagine that really would interfere with lore or something so probably not. Still, it's just a concept I had that you could have certain items in the game which are illegal to all factions or just certain factions due to their immense or destructive powers. These items would, however, be available on the black market.

The Black Market is an illegal market after all, and with that I thought could give you a name if caught. While I personally have no clue as to how they'll punish players for failing assassinations or getting caught when thieving, whatever the punishment for that is could be similar if caught selling items on the Black Market. I know all of this Black Market talk seems like I haven't thought it through. To be honest, I haven't really. There again, I find the concept it a great way to make the economy have more depth to it.

--------------Conclusion----------------
The idea behind this is to make a dynamic economy. I loved the dynamic events that were in Guild Wars 2, and I see no reason as to spread that to as many things as possible. Feel free to leave replies on information about any Economic information already given, and about what you want or think the game needs to help it have an interesting & successful economy. As you may have noticed, I left out the Merchant's Guild feature as I feel it might interfere with Lore or something. . Besides, the idea was a little bit far out if I do say so myself. Thanks for reading! Happy
This post was last modified: March 11th 2013, 02:08 PM by Kilivin
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Post #49570
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Definately difficult/complicated to program and implement, but interresting ideas.

The Black market could even open up the possibility and usefulness of a thief again (since everybody would whine if thieves could steal from players). Nobody can argue that thieves werent part of TES.

I think that having those rare powerful items you spoke of would be extremely hard to balance though. Theyd almost have to be strictly for trade.

The Faction/Interfaction auctions idea is an intriguing expansion on the discussion we had in your other thread about this.

The NPC auctions...hmm...Im gonna have to think on that one. It could be good or it could spin the economy out of control. I do like the part where their profits go toward the faction war effort though.
This post was last modified: March 11th 2013, 02:43 PM by Balkoth


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(March 11th 2013, 02:43 PM)Balkoth Wrote: Definately difficult/complicated to program and implement, but interresting ideas.

The Black market could even open up the possibility and usefulness of a thief again (since everybody would whine if thieves could steal from players). Nobody can argue that thieves werent part of TES.

I think that having those rare powerful items you spoke of would be extremely hard to balance though. Theyd almost have to be strictly for trade.

The Faction/Interfaction auctions idea is an intriguing expansion on the discussion we had in your other thread about this.

The NPC auctions...hmm...Im gonna have to think on that one. It could be good or it could spin the economy out of control. I do like the part where their profits go toward the faction war effort though.

Yeah, I can definitely see this all being quite difficult to implement into the game. However, when it comes to making economy realistic you have to make a lot of depth to it. It also has to make sense. That's why I thought you could have certain items, not the best items in the game, but just items that have attributes to them of chaotic or destructive power. Those items would have to be sold on the Black Market.

For example, a staff that allows the caster to catch fire and all who are near him also catch fire. While the amount of damage the fire does would be moderate, it would still be a chaotic weapon, ergo making it have to be sold on the Black Market.
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Post #49584
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While we're on the subject of money, what do you think the currency/ies will be called? The Septims don't yet exist, so....


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I see what your saying @"Kilivin". I kinda took that part wrong I guess.

Another thing to keep in mind, is dynamic economies have unforseen backlashes too. They have to be implemented very carefully.

One in particular comes to mind. In the very beginning of UO, everything in the economy/enviroment was what they called dynamic. The spawn rates of reagents, wood, etc. (even ore to a lesser degree) were all linked to the cycle of time and the population. Only a certain amount would spawn in the world (according to population) at any given time. This became a real problem when people started hoarding these things rather than selling or using them, which was supposed to recycle them back into the economy. All of a sudden these items became extremely hard to find and as a result they became extremely valuable/expensive, to the point that the GMs/devs had to step in and turn this feature off.

Obviously this scenario couldnt happen now. Gaming worlds are much different now but, a similar one could have the same results. The economy runs wild and everything becomes outrageously expensive. Its happening in other games as we speak. My point being, dynamic economies are very tricky things that can go bad quickly in unforseen ways.
Dont get me wrong, Id like to see something like your saying too. Im just pointing out the downside/problems Ive seen with attempting a dynamic economy.


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(March 11th 2013, 03:19 PM)Balkoth Wrote: I see what your saying @"Kilivin". I kinda took that part wrong I guess.

Another thing to keep in mind, is dynamic economies have unforseen backlashes too. They have to be implemented very carefully.

One in particular comes to mind. In the very beginning of UO, everything in the economy/enviroment was what they called dynamic. The spawn rates of reagents, wood, etc. (even ore to a lesser degree) were all linked to the cycle of time and the population. Only a certain amount would spawn in the world (according to population) at any given time. This became a real problem when people started hoarding these things rather than selling or using them, which was supposed to recycle them back into the economy. All of a sudden these items became extremely hard to find and as a result they became extremely valuable/expensive, to the point that the GMs/devs had to step in and turn this feature off.

Obviously this scenario couldnt happen now. Gaming worlds are much different now but, a similar one could have the same results. The economy runs wild and everything becomes outrageously expensive. Its happening in other games as we speak. My point being, dynamic economies are very tricky things that can go bad quickly in unforseen ways.
Dont get me wrong, Id like to see something like your saying too. Im just pointing out the downside/problems Ive seen with attempting a dynamic economy.

I would say one of those games is D3, haha. Alas, that was what I was thinking the Merchant's Guild would be for. Disregarding Lore, the Merchant's Guild is designed to give those who sell items fairly a higher standing. In turn, they go up a sort of "ratings" list which when at the top, set the standards for merchants of their faction. So, there could be a "best merchant" for each faction sort of leading the economy and setting the prices fairly for items.

However, I can imagine there is no lore to back up a Merchant's Guild so I left it out. The concept though is to prevent people from selling items at outrageous prices by encouraging players to sell items at the right price. The right price of course depends on the price that others put up, the value of the item, and the quantity in which the item is sold.

Again, from a lore standpoint it probably makes little sense, and in regards to implementing an entire system that monitors player transactions would be really difficult from a dev standpoint.
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(March 11th 2013, 03:56 PM)Kilivin Wrote: I would say one of those games is D3, haha. Alas, that was what I was thinking the Merchant's Guild would be for. Disregarding Lore, the Merchant's Guild is designed to give those who sell items fairly a higher standing. In turn, they go up a sort of "ratings" list which when at the top, set the standards for merchants of their faction. So, there could be a "best merchant" for each faction sort of leading the economy and setting the prices fairly for items.

However, I can imagine there is no lore to back up a Merchant's Guild so I left it out. The concept though is to prevent people from selling items at outrageous prices by encouraging players to sell items at the right price. The right price of course depends on the price that others put up, the value of the item, and the quantity in which the item is sold.

Again, from a lore standpoint it probably makes little sense, and in regards to implementing an entire system that monitors player transactions would be really difficult from a dev standpoint.

Interesting use of a merchants guild. I kinda like it when you put it that way. As long as there were checks and balances in place to prevent abuse of the system, it could probably work.

Lore to me, isnt near as important to me as gameplay, so if it works and does whats its designed for, then the lore can be made to fit. What historic book or record hasnt been altered/updated at some point? History has always been changed and updated as we learn more about what really happened, anyway. The writers can make a good idea fit into the story.


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(March 11th 2013, 03:17 PM)Octagonapus97 Wrote: While we're on the subject of money, what do you think the currency/ies will be called? The Septims don't yet exist, so....

Probably "Gold"
In TESO aren't a unify government, so the only currency between different areas can be gold, and in one interview the devs said something like: "The Wayshrines will cost gold to use". So, gold is your answer
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I suppose that would be the simplest solution.


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The Aldmeri Dominion will dominate Tamriel.
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Gold makes sense to me as well, being a cross-faction money. That being said, if they're going for this instead of something more faction specific, it also could be an indicator that a neutral trading platform will exist in Cyrodiil.

Also, I really, REALLY like the idea of NPCs being able to auction valuable items that are sold to them. This also wouldn't be too dificult to program either in my opinion. Just have the npc randomly sell certain valuable items by taking a rolling average of what it goes for on the AH, multiplying that randomly by +-20% with a slight influence based on how many times the item has shown up on the AH. This could really be a powerful tool for stopping people from artificially inflating the economy.

You don't really even need to implement the actual sending back of the money to the merchant, because ideally merchants will have unlimited money. (Sure, this was done in TES, but I don't think it's realistic for the MMO as merchants in highly populated areas might not make money as fast as they need to in order to keep up).


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(March 11th 2013, 07:02 PM)Glassweaver Wrote: Gold makes sense to me as well, being a cross-faction money. That being said, if they're going for this instead of something more faction specific, it also could be an indicator that a neutral trading platform will exist in Cyrodiil.

Also, I really, REALLY like the idea of NPCs being able to auction valuable items that are sold to them. This also wouldn't be too dificult to program either in my opinion. Just have the npc randomly sell certain valuable items by taking a rolling average of what it goes for on the AH, multiplying that randomly by +-20% with a slight influence based on how many times the item has shown up on the AH. This could really be a powerful tool for stopping people from artificially inflating the economy.

You don't really even need to implement the actual sending back of the money to the merchant, because ideally merchants will have unlimited money. (Sure, this was done in TES, but I don't think it's realistic for the MMO as merchants in highly populated areas might not make money as fast as they need to in order to keep up).

Well, that's why I had the idea of making it to where the money that the NPC obtains goes to its faction's war effort. That way, it's not only beneficial to sell items and get involved with the economy for money, but also from a faction as a whole. Smiling
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Well, being somewhat of an economist myself, and having delved into games like EVE Online, I know that 1.) These ideas *do* have amazing potential but unfortunately 2.) They are insanely difficult to implement.

Your ideas would be great but you need to get major support if you even want these ideas implemented by 1.2....

And that's saying something.
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