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Goodbye to chessboard encounters


Started by Thwaite
Post #31054
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I recently watched a video on the Game informer discussing ESO combat with Adam Biessener (Click Here). I have to say I am getting more and more pumped the more information comes about this game. I am especially excited about the removal of "chessboard" encounters most MMO players are used to in most online games, i.e. WOW. Where a group of would be heroes enter a dungeons with gigantic monsters or bosses of every shape, color, and variety. These creature just simply stand there and blankly stare at you as you set your party up...this has always been a significant pet-pev of mine because most of the rooms do not even present the ability for a boss to exit the area. How the heck did he get in there in the first place and what...he just lives there, waiting for someone to come kill them? So...on to ESO.

I found ESO's dungeon combat system to be a long needed breath of fresh air because the mobs react to the presence of the heroes...they can call for help, take cover, heal each other and variety of other different tactical situations. Advance to time: 10:00 for the bit about dungeon combat. (+100 for battles versus pulls)

The video revealed a great deal about ESO's combat system and is absolutely a must see!!

Advanced Combat in The Elder Scrolls Online
http://youtu.be/ayT_9USmIbg
This post was last modified: January 31st 2013, 01:18 PM by Thwaite


"I once fought two days with an arrow through my testicle." --Godfrey of Ibelin
...definitely makes the city guard crying about his knee sound like a punk...

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Post #31056
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Link to the video does not work.

Fixed your link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayT_9USmIbg
This post was last modified: January 31st 2013, 01:04 PM by Infamous


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Post #31060
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(January 31st 2013, 01:04 PM)Infamous Wrote: Link to the video does not work.

Fixed your link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayT_9USmIbg

Ooops, I messed that up. Thanks


"I once fought two days with an arrow through my testicle." --Godfrey of Ibelin
...definitely makes the city guard crying about his knee sound like a punk...

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Post #31064
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My thoughts exactly. It's time for some REAL active combat and battles and some truly dynamic AI.


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Post #31120
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I'm very much hoping that the sneak element of single player TES games comes into play here. You can set your party up around a corner, but a noisy spellcast or a clank of heavy armour will alert the big boss rather than aggro range.

Another thing which would be cool is different levels of aggro range. At one range the boss would toss out ranged attacks, and only close if it felt it was getting damaged more than it was dealing. At the second, smaller range, it would close on the nearest or weakest target.

AI's are just never as smart as developers make them out to be, though. So I'm not holding my breath about PvE being all that mind-blowing.
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Post #31126
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Yeah and more importantly the mobs behave much like a group of players would in combat, using their skills in synergy with each other to heal, deal damage, CC, etc so when you do eventually go to Cyrodiil you are not totally out of your element as the mobs have been doing the same things to you and you have already learned how to counter it all...its a very refreshing and interesting game design feature thats for sure.
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Post #31136
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So...as I get this, enemies in dungeons won´t just stand around hostily.

That, I think is good. They should atleast look like as they have something to do. Like...a Bandit camp, playing cards, arguing, lollygagging.

And it should be always different. Even if the bandits just change seats. Like in Skyrim. And not just patroling. They shall cook, wash dishes, sharp their swords or take a look at the clouds, saying, hey this cloud looks like a dragon!

But we should keep in mind, this is a BIG tasks, especially for a MMO. Let´s wish Zenimax good luck at the challange they gave themselves.


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Post #31841
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I am curious to see how they balance tactics overall. How much will "threat" will play a part in combat, will a tanking style play actually be able to sway mobs tactics with taunts or are we going to see mobs change tactics and go after less protected characters randomly (or strategically)

I like the idea of mobs being smart but with only a few abilities available to players at a given time I wonder if they will have to limit some of the freedom mobs have. I will admit Healing is something I am really curious to see how they fully implement it. Considering a healer only has 6 abilities at their available to them will they be able to have 6 abilities to heal and will they need them or are they going to make healing kinda primative, less complicated and have each member of a group be responsible for some of their own healing.
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Post #31907
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(February 1st 2013, 03:13 PM)Jepetto Wrote: I am curious to see how they balance tactics overall. How much will "threat" will play a part in combat, will a tanking style play actually be able to sway mobs tactics with taunts or are we going to see mobs change tactics and go after less protected characters randomly (or strategically)

I like the idea of mobs being smart but with only a few abilities available to players at a given time I wonder if they will have to limit some of the freedom mobs have. I will admit Healing is something I am really curious to see how they fully implement it. Considering a healer only has 6 abilities at their available to them will they be able to have 6 abilities to heal and will they need them or are they going to make healing kinda primative, less complicated and have each member of a group be responsible for some of their own healing.

I share some of the same questions and concerns you have about the system. I have been continually a tank based character in the MMOs I have played and I am really wondering if there is going to be any threat based abilitys at all or are the sword and board character just going to take less damage? The tactical fights are going to be awesome however I wonder how they are going to balance tactical fights versus continual, all out brawls and just zerg everyting down.

There are more questions than answers at this point. :)


"I once fought two days with an arrow through my testicle." --Godfrey of Ibelin
...definitely makes the city guard crying about his knee sound like a punk...

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Post #31929
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(February 1st 2013, 05:08 PM)Thwaite Wrote: I share some of the same questions and concerns you have about the system. I have been continually a tank based character in the MMOs I have played and I am really wondering if there is going to be any threat based abilitys at all or are the sword and board character just going to take less damage? The tactical fights are going to be awesome however I wonder how they are going to balance tactical fights versus continual, all out brawls and just zerg everyting down.

There are more questions than answers at this point. :)

My MMO career is pretty similar, I played through most of my time in DDO, WoW and Rift as a tank.

In the video we see them talking about not wanting avoidance to be passive so if thats the case are they going to make threat more passive for tanks? My biggest complaint about previous MMOs I played is that tanks and DPS shared the same job in that they needed to max DPS to be successful. I would be more then happy if TESO went the route of selecting certain abilities to be high threat gen (even if they use higher stam) and making it a juggling of using stam for threat and avoidance. But at the same time you are talking about a very hard thing to balance.

Look at how bad Blizzard messed it up in WoW. 4 expansions and they still either make it too hard or too easy.

The other big question for me is where are you going to allow people to tank, is it going to be through perks that you get a bonus threat modifier (i would assume that a threat mod would have to be in the game somewhere). If you put it in shield perk set then you are saying that all tanks have to have shields. If you put it in heavy armor then you are saying all tanks have to wear heavy armor and in both situations you are doing exactly what TESO has said they want to get away from pigeon holing people to play in a certain way. We have seen MMOs where tanks wear light armor and evasion tank or go dual wielding or use 2 handers and make up for the lack of shield by other mechanics so I cant see them not allowing both things to be viable on some level. Truth be told I wouldnt doubt seeing them ruling out mages tanking in cloth with a given set up (Im thinking of how mages can tank in Dragon Age). And if you go and put in multiple perks then you run a risk of over amping threat (unless they dont stack and you get equal threat mods in each perk)

Personally I am excited about trying out tanking in this game more then any other MMO i have ever got into because of what I have heard so far. The ability to actively avoid/mitagate damage is a big plus in my book especially if they do add provide tanking abilities as well.
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Post #31940
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(February 1st 2013, 05:52 PM)Jepetto Wrote: The other big question for me is where are you going to allow people to tank, is it going to be through perks that you get a bonus threat modifier (i would assume that a threat mod would have to be in the game somewhere). If you put it in shield perk set then you are saying that all tanks have to have shields. If you put it in heavy armor then you are saying all tanks have to wear heavy armor and in both situations you are doing exactly what TESO has said they want to get away from pigeon holing people to play in a certain way. We have seen MMOs where tanks wear light armor and evasion tank or go dual wielding or use 2 handers and make up for the lack of shield by other mechanics so I cant see them not allowing both things to be viable on some level. Truth be told I wouldnt doubt seeing them ruling out mages tanking in cloth with a given set up (Im thinking of how mages can tank in Dragon Age). And if you go and put in multiple perks then you run a risk of over amping threat (unless they dont stack and you get equal threat mods in each perk)

SWTOR example, you have been warned: In SWTOR, all 6 (3) tanking classes had various "stances" that they entered to engage tank mode. Considering the vast pool of abilities that classes are going to draw from, I would say that we may see a similar system in ESO, where tanks have their own set of abilities that turn them into "tanks". Just a thought.
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Post #31965
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It was really easy to avoid damage in TERA, like, idk how my tank friend kept dying, you could literally strafe away from a BAMs arm as it was trying to attack you and not take damage.


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Post #32842
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A thing occurred to me about TESO's desire to make dungeons seem more realistic and having the occupants actually living in there rather then waiting for someone to run the dungeon. I would assume TESO is going to be real time, meaning that if its night time for the server then the world will be dark and if its day time for the server then the world will be light. If thats the case is it going to be possible to walk into a dungeon and find the occupants sleeping?
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Post #32908
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jepetto, i sure hope so



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Post #32939
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(February 2nd 2013, 07:47 PM)Jepetto Wrote: I would assume TESO is going to be real time, meaning that if its night time for the server then the world will be dark and if its day time for the server then the world will be light. If thats the case is it going to be possible to walk into a dungeon and find the occupants sleeping?

I truly hope that is the case... no way of knowing at this point.


"I once fought two days with an arrow through my testicle." --Godfrey of Ibelin
...definitely makes the city guard crying about his knee sound like a punk...

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