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How Should Zenimax Implement Invisibility In ESO?


Started by Qallidex
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I recently posted a thread here talking about who makes better mages, Altmer or Dunmer, and talked about how Altmer have the best illusion in the game, and of course, have invisibility (in the illusion line), so, it got me thinkin, how should ZOS implement this into ESO?

One idea, is to allow it, but have it cost magicka over time, so say, a mage could be invisible for up to 2-3 minutes, but then, they'd have no magicka left for a fight, so it would be very limited, but while active, it would basically work as regular invisibility, where the mage couldn't be seen till they make some sort of an offensive attack (of course). But, there are lots of different ways to implement invis, and deal with the balancing issues that arise, so...

What's the best way to implement invisibility into the game? (And don't say "Don't implement it into the game" this thread is meant to discuss constructive ways to actually do it).
This post was last modified: February 25th 2013, 02:43 AM by Qallidex
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Post #44872
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alternatively it could drain Stamina, so the Mage suffers a little more for staying invisible for longer.


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Post #44889
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Currently, the sneak is an artificial stealth (completely invisible), ruled by what developer's call "Detection range." We do not know the variables of the said detection range, but we know stealth costs stamina per movement or second.

I find this an excellent base. Now, regarding PvP balance, we best leave races out of it (we won't have access to spell schools in traditional TES way anyways). What we know that any class can sneak, this means those who want to sneak around need to invest in stamina. In addition to this it is more than likely that the detection range can be lessened by abilities, perks or spells. What is needed to balance it out is to have spells that increase ones perception, essentially increasing the detection range of a player. So then we have players that have higher detection, meaning that those with weaker sneak capabilities are easily spotted by them. Naturally, those with no detection will have hard time detecting those who have invested in sneaking.


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Post #44890
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(February 25th 2013, 05:19 AM)Nehemia Wrote: Currently, the sneak is an artificial stealth (completely invisible), ruled by what developer's call "Detection range." We do not know the variables of the said detection range, but we know stealth costs stamina per movement or second.

I find this an excellent base. Now, regarding PvP balance, we best leave races out of it (we won't have access to spell schools in traditional TES way anyways). What we know that any class can sneak, this means those who want to sneak around need to invest in stamina. In addition to this it is more than likely that the detection range can be lessened by abilities, perks or spells. What is needed to balance it out is to have spells that increase ones perception, essentially increasing the detection range of a player. So then we have players that have higher detection, meaning that those with weaker sneak capabilities are easily spotted by them. Naturally, those with no detection will have hard time detecting those who have invested in sneaking.

So, instead of Invis, you mean something that could enhance a player's ability to go undetected with their natural sneak ability?
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Post #44893
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(February 25th 2013, 05:22 AM)Qallidex Wrote:
(February 25th 2013, 05:19 AM)Nehemia Wrote: Currently, the sneak is an artificial stealth (completely invisible), ruled by what developer's call "Detection range." We do not know the variables of the said detection range, but we know stealth costs stamina per movement or second.

I find this an excellent base. Now, regarding PvP balance, we best leave races out of it (we won't have access to spell schools in traditional TES way anyways). What we know that any class can sneak, this means those who want to sneak around need to invest in stamina. In addition to this it is more than likely that the detection range can be lessened by abilities, perks or spells. What is needed to balance it out is to have spells that increase ones perception, essentially increasing the detection range of a player. So then we have players that have higher detection, meaning that those with weaker sneak capabilities are easily spotted by them. Naturally, those with no detection will have hard time detecting those who have invested in sneaking.

So, instead of Invis, you mean something that could enhance a player's ability to go undetected with their natural sneak ability?

Nah, what they currently have. You are invisible until you are tickled by the enemies detection range, and then you appear to them as sneaking transparent character. Then we should have abilities to lessen this detection range, and increase it on the other side.


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Post #44906
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I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.


TESO - - Multiplayer: "M'aiq does not know this word. You wish others to help you in your quest? Coward! If you must, search for the Argonian Im-Leet, or perhaps the big Nord, Rolf the Uber. They will certainly wish to join you." M'aiq the Liar.

"Va Khaj Dar - Khajiity's united? M'aiq will join!" M'aiq the Liar
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Post #44912
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"Greetings, marsh-friend"

We ll we already know their is full blown stealth for rogues. We know that everyone can sneak which is not stealth. I have a feeling that the rogues will have class specific stealth abilities that can be slotted into the three special abilities slots.

Unless you are a rogues i don't think you will have access to the full range of invisibility abilities.

(February 25th 2013, 06:43 AM)CedarLilly Wrote: I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Sneaking is not the same as invisibility stealth, we already know that everyone can sneak just like in TES.
This post was last modified: February 25th 2013, 06:59 AM by Moves-Behind-The-Shadows


The night my mistress the darkness my home.The moon my working light the knife my tome. The blood my water the flesh my meat
Crucified, sanctified, the target's death my heat. Thus goes by my night of which I ponder at day, my spotless claws bloodied by ghosts that guide my way.
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(February 25th 2013, 06:56 AM)Moves-Behind-The-Shadows Wrote: "Greetings, marsh-friend"

We ll we already know their is full blown stealth for rogues. We know that everyone can sneak which is not stealth. I have a feeling that the rogues will have class specific stealth abilities that can be slotted into the three special abilities slots.

Unless you are a rogues i don't think you will have access to the full range of invisibility abilities.

(February 25th 2013, 06:43 AM)CedarLilly Wrote: I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Sneaking is not the same as invisibility stealth, we already know that everyone can sneak just like in TES.

Ahh, thank you! 'Tis early Monday morning at work and I was mixing up Sneak & Stealth. Leave it to an Argonian to set a Khajiity straight. A free bowl to you, marsh-friend.


TESO - - Multiplayer: "M'aiq does not know this word. You wish others to help you in your quest? Coward! If you must, search for the Argonian Im-Leet, or perhaps the big Nord, Rolf the Uber. They will certainly wish to join you." M'aiq the Liar.

"Va Khaj Dar - Khajiity's united? M'aiq will join!" M'aiq the Liar
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Post #44919
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Oi! quit talking bullshit.

There is no class related stealth.
Everyone can sneak and sneak IS mechanical stealth, as in youre invisible.

stop beeing wrong. beeing wrong is awfull!
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Post #44922
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(February 25th 2013, 06:56 AM)Moves-Behind-The-Shadows Wrote: "Greetings, marsh-friend"

We ll we already know their is full blown stealth for rogues. We know that everyone can sneak which is not stealth. I have a feeling that the rogues will have class specific stealth abilities that can be slotted into the three special abilities slots.

Unless you are a rogues i don't think you will have access to the full range of invisibility abilities.

(February 25th 2013, 06:43 AM)CedarLilly Wrote: I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Sneaking is not the same as invisibility stealth, we already know that everyone can sneak just like in TES.

Incorrect, anyone can just press "Crouch" button and become invisible, what varies is the detection range of you vs. others whether they will see through your invisibility or not.


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Post #44932
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(February 25th 2013, 07:04 AM)CedarLilly Wrote:
(February 25th 2013, 06:56 AM)Moves-Behind-The-Shadows Wrote: "Greetings, marsh-friend"

We ll we already know their is full blown stealth for rogues. We know that everyone can sneak which is not stealth. I have a feeling that the rogues will have class specific stealth abilities that can be slotted into the three special abilities slots.

Unless you are a rogues i don't think you will have access to the full range of invisibility abilities.

(February 25th 2013, 06:43 AM)CedarLilly Wrote: I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Sneaking is not the same as invisibility stealth, we already know that everyone can sneak just like in TES.

Ahh, thank you! 'Tis early Monday morning at work and I was mixing up Sneak & Stealth. Leave it to an Argonian to set a Khajiity straight. A free bowl to you, marsh-friend.

As do many my friend. With stealth playing a major part in my occupation i learnt quickly that sneaking lessons survival in the black city of Gideon. Only through full stealth can one hope to walk the paths Seth chosen black city.


The night my mistress the darkness my home.The moon my working light the knife my tome. The blood my water the flesh my meat
Crucified, sanctified, the target's death my heat. Thus goes by my night of which I ponder at day, my spotless claws bloodied by ghosts that guide my way.
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Post #44933
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OK, so with the standard sneak/stealth, we have a standard range which everyone can be seen, depending on class, skills, armor choice, etc. But that's where full-blown invis, and stealth differ, with full-blown invisibility, no one can see the person unless they actually step on someone's toes, so ho can we implement THAT into TESO?
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Post #44934
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(February 25th 2013, 07:15 AM)Nehemia Wrote:
(February 25th 2013, 06:56 AM)Moves-Behind-The-Shadows Wrote: "Greetings, marsh-friend"

We ll we already know their is full blown stealth for rogues. We know that everyone can sneak which is not stealth. I have a feeling that the rogues will have class specific stealth abilities that can be slotted into the three special abilities slots.

Unless you are a rogues i don't think you will have access to the full range of invisibility abilities.

(February 25th 2013, 06:43 AM)CedarLilly Wrote: I think Sneak is more of a Ranger/Assassin/Rogue type skill. Are you saying that everyone will have this option or is it class specific? I still think that the power to caste Invisibility fits more with a Mage/Wizard skill. Drain Stamina in either case seems to make sense.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Sneaking is not the same as invisibility stealth, we already know that everyone can sneak just like in TES.

Incorrect, anyone can just press "Crouch" button and become invisible, what varies is the detection range of you vs. others whether they will see through your invisibility or not.

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

I think you will find that you press the crouch button and the eye appears, you don't actually disappear like an invisibility spell.

(February 25th 2013, 07:35 AM)Qallidex Wrote: OK, so with the standard sneak/stealth, we have a standard range which everyone can be seen, depending on class, skills, armor choice, etc. But that's where full-blown invis, and stealth differ, with full-blown invisibility, no one can see the person unless they actually step on someone's toes, so ho can we implement THAT into TESO?

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

Exactly.
This post was last modified: February 25th 2013, 07:36 AM by Moves-Behind-The-Shadows


The night my mistress the darkness my home.The moon my working light the knife my tome. The blood my water the flesh my meat
Crucified, sanctified, the target's death my heat. Thus goes by my night of which I ponder at day, my spotless claws bloodied by ghosts that guide my way.
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Post #44937
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(February 25th 2013, 07:35 AM)Qallidex Wrote: OK, so with the standard sneak/stealth, we have a standard range which everyone can be seen, depending on class, skills, armor choice, etc. But that's where full-blown invis, and stealth differ, with full-blown invisibility, no one can see the person unless they actually step on someone's toes, so ho can we implement THAT into TESO?

stop believing his bullshit.
Sneak = Invis

its the same thing.

What you THINK is irrelevant. Thats how it is. We know that from the Interviews and the hand outs.

Also Gideon beeing the Black City of Set belongs to pre Arena stuff (go, blades!) where TES was still a DnD setting.
So i wouldnt take that part too seriously...
This post was last modified: February 25th 2013, 07:38 AM by Sordak
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Post #44939
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(February 25th 2013, 07:35 AM)Qallidex Wrote: OK, so with the standard sneak/stealth, we have a standard range which everyone can be seen, depending on class, skills, armor choice, etc. But that's where full-blown invis, and stealth differ, with full-blown invisibility, no one can see the person unless they actually step on someone's toes, so ho can we implement THAT into TESO?

"Greetings, marsh-friend"

IMO it will be a rogue class ability, a click of 3, 4, or 5 button and you go into stealth mode. That would seem the most logical way of doing it, it's not going to come through a weapon skill.

One and two slots are basic weapon slot abilities.


The night my mistress the darkness my home.The moon my working light the knife my tome. The blood my water the flesh my meat
Crucified, sanctified, the target's death my heat. Thus goes by my night of which I ponder at day, my spotless claws bloodied by ghosts that guide my way.
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