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Level Scaling


Started by Kilivin
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Something that is what I think a staple to previous elder scrolls games is there method of scaling creatures through the game with your level. In Oblivion you'd at first find wolves running about, then bears, then possibly even spriggans. In Skyrim there was the different tiers of dragons and such.

My question - in an MMO format, this approach probably wouldn't work because the second a high level enters a low level "zone" ( if that's a thing ) then it would cause the low levels to be griefed by very powerful monsters. I'm curious if anyone has any information on this - & if not, some ideas of how we could see monster scaling in TESO? Smiling


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Post #83084
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Monsters most probably won't scale. As you venture further into your factions territory mobs will get higher level


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Post #83094
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(July 28th 2013, 12:36 PM)DoRakk Wrote: Monsters most probably won't scale. As you venture further into your factions territory mobs will get higher level

Is there any info on this? Because I feel like it'd be a bit disappointing to never see any of those scamps in higher level areas. Not to mention seeing really cool things like Dremora or Ogres in the lower level areas. Haha, if you didn't understand the question it is as follows - Will mobs scale? Basically, because I feel like as one progresses they ought to not be the only ones seeing new monsters and such. It kind of detracts from the feel of the game when Area X is filled with scamps, Area Y is filled with Dremora, and Area Z is filled with Daedroth. However, when you're below the level of the area Z you will never see Daedroth. Furthermore, if you're in Area Z you will never see any more Dremora or Scamps (or a more powerful version of these creatures.) This is coming from the perspective of an ES game where any type of monster could be anywhere because of level scaling.
This post was last modified: July 28th 2013, 01:15 PM by Kilivin


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Post #83116
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What I would assume is not exactly that you won't not see scamps outside of lower levelled areas. We know that to maintain progression ZOS is including levelled areas to ESO. While it may seem restricting, they assure us zones will be massive and have tons of content to maintain that TES feel of go in any direction and find fun things to do.

If you see a few scamps within lower levelled areas, as you progress you'll encounter harder and harder monsters, and possibly more and more lower levelled monsters. Like, instead of 2 scamps at level 5, you'll see like 15 at level twenty all within the same mob.


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Post #83127
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(July 28th 2013, 02:13 PM)Ferroc Wrote: What I would assume is not exactly that you won't not see scamps outside of lower levelled areas. We know that to maintain progression ZOS is including levelled areas to ESO. While it may seem restricting, they assure us zones will be massive and have tons of content to maintain that TES feel of go in any direction and find fun things to do.

If you see a few scamps within lower levelled areas, as you progress you'll encounter harder and harder monsters, and possibly more and more lower levelled monsters. Like, instead of 2 scamps at level 5, you'll see like 15 at level twenty all within the same mob.

Yes, I can see this as one approach. Another is that if you recall in Oblivion for example, you would see Scamps if you went into the gates early on. However, if you went into them at a later level they were given a different name (of which I don't recall exactly), and they were made more difficult to kill. I feel like while the swarm approach works, it kind of makes progression feel too quick so to speak.

While I'm not implying I want to be fighting scamps all day, it's nice to see old creatures make returns but scaled up to your level as you progress so you don't have the extreme feeling of "Omg I'm so overpowered I can take down 50 scamps at once." I feel like while it's kinda cool to do that, it feels a bit off-putting in some instances and again makes progression seem like it goes by quickly.
This post was last modified: July 28th 2013, 02:48 PM by Kilivin


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Post #83134
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I suppose yah that makes sense. If scaling is done, it should be done right tho. Not like you fight level 10 wolves then go into another area and find new level twenty wolves of a different colour. You should be fighting like level 20 wolves that look a little scarier or like "feral wolves" or something.


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Post #83142
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(July 28th 2013, 02:56 PM)Ferroc Wrote: I suppose yah that makes sense. If scaling is done, it should be done right tho. Not like you fight level 10 wolves then go into another area and find new level twenty wolves of a different colour. You should be fighting like level 20 wolves that look a little scarier or like "feral wolves" or something.

Exactly. & now that I remember, the higher level scamps in Oblivion were a lot taller and broader. The difference never has to be too extreme, but as long as it is something noticeable while still being of the same species of creature.


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Post #83153
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Mhmm. scale the model as well as the level.


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Post #83215
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Based on what things have been said in interviews, monsters themselves will not scale to you on an individual basis. As Ferroc has said, they will be scaled based on what area they are in. If things scaled to you on an individual basis then public dungeons would never work. As you said you would either get high level stuff popping up for low level people, or it would put you in new phasing (but different phases based on every single level would spread you far too thin). Trying to find a good way to scale things that somehow wouldn't scare away every MMO player out there is far too headache-inducing and complex for ZOS to do.


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Post #83225
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Yeah, level scalling does not work in MMOs, unless it is a Individual instance, but they have to limit those as having too many indicidual instances in an MMO is counterproductive. So I wouldn't expect to see any level scalling.


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(July 29th 2013, 02:37 AM)LGAllastair Wrote: Yeah, level scalling does not work in MMOs, unless it is a Individual instance, but they have to limit those as having too many indicidual instances in an MMO is counterproductive. So I wouldn't expect to see any level scalling.

Of course wasn't level scaling used heavily in previous Elder Scrolls titles? Morrowind and Oblivion for sure. So for that alone I could seem them dragging it back out.

But other than that I have to agree that level scaling has pretty much been a disaster, or at best awkward.
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(July 31st 2013, 01:55 PM)CyclopsSlayer Wrote:
(July 29th 2013, 02:37 AM)LGAllastair Wrote: Yeah, level scalling does not work in MMOs, unless it is a Individual instance, but they have to limit those as having too many indicidual instances in an MMO is counterproductive. So I wouldn't expect to see any level scalling.

Of course wasn't level scaling used heavily in previous Elder Scrolls titles? Morrowind and Oblivion for sure. So for that alone I could seem them dragging it back out.

But other than that I have to agree that level scaling has pretty much been a disaster, or at best awkward.

I don't see your point, previous Elder Scrolls titles are not MMOs.


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(July 31st 2013, 07:34 PM)LGAllastair Wrote:
(July 31st 2013, 01:55 PM)CyclopsSlayer Wrote:
(July 29th 2013, 02:37 AM)LGAllastair Wrote: Yeah, level scalling does not work in MMOs, unless it is a Individual instance, but they have to limit those as having too many indicidual instances in an MMO is counterproductive. So I wouldn't expect to see any level scalling.

Of course wasn't level scaling used heavily in previous Elder Scrolls titles? Morrowind and Oblivion for sure. So for that alone I could seem them dragging it back out.

But other than that I have to agree that level scaling has pretty much been a disaster, or at best awkward.

I don't see your point, previous Elder Scrolls titles are not MMOs.

The point was that they have taken so many parts of the single player games already. Skill systems are similar, classes, races, lore.... That it wouldn't surprise me at all that such a core mechanic to the single players might also make it into the MMO in some fashion.

Not saying that I want it, I really don't. Just that it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find it there.
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(July 29th 2013, 02:37 AM)LGAllastair Wrote: Yeah, level scalling does not work in MMOs, unless it is a Individual instance, but they have to limit those as having too many indicidual instances in an MMO is counterproductive. So I wouldn't expect to see any level scalling.

Scaling rarely works, even in GW2, if a lvl 20 with the best lvl 20 gear in the game goes into WvW they get waffle stomped. The reason being someone who is naturally lvl 80 with the best lvl 80 gear in the game has no gear scaling, even though at their lvl they would add the same % of stats increase. Scaling is just not a good idea.


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Post #95809
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I was talking more about the level scalling on the mobs and not so much the player. Scalling the player in PvP is a mechanic that we have seen in previous games and, while it is not perfect, it is ok and doable for the most part.
This post was last modified: September 4th 2013, 02:36 AM by LGAllastair


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