Maxing "everything"

Will it be possible? With the announcement that after you are level 50 you can go to new entire areas to increase skills then the final area. Not to mention you have apparently 3 AvA skill trees. My question is - will there be enough skills in the game, yet enough limitations to make it to where you can't max everything like you can in Skyrim or other ES games given enough time?

Honestly, while I like that a person is able to max everything, it turns new players off imo. Imagine going into AvA and learning that you have to spend 500-1000 hours in PvE to max all your skills before being able to even contend with the other players there. . While, personally, I'd rather cap my character to the height of his capabilities and then AvA, but for those who go into AvA at lvl 10 or 15 or something, I wouldn't want the 3v1 strategy to take me out to not work due to me just being WAY ridiculously stronger than them. Idk, I feel like this could be overpowered unless the amount of total skillpoints or what not that you add to different skill trees doesn't even scratch how many actual things there are to choose from. Any info on this would be appreciated!

you dont get it im afraid.

What do you think this means? that you can simulatnoisly sneak and wear heavy armor and fling spells and wear a two hander at the same time?
You have only 6 skill slots.
you can only wield 2 weapon sets.

Wether or not you have maxed out everything is NOT relevant.
you can only use a tiny fraction of all the skills you have anyway.

(March 27th 2013, 08:35 AM)Sordak Wrote: you dont get it im afraid.

What do you think this means? that you can simulatnoisly sneak and wear heavy armor and fling spells and wear a two hander at the same time?
You have only 6 skill slots.
you can only wield 2 weapon sets.

Wether or not you have maxed out everything is NOT relevant.
you can only use a tiny fraction of all the skills you have anyway.

Honestly, I think it's more that it makes it lose it's unique flavor to what you choose to do. Say someone wants to be a master mage, but instead there is this other guy who just decided to be a master everything and can just switch out his skills to the same thing you worked so hard to get. Turns out, he just has more free time than you so therefore that means your mage isn't as important. Not to mention, everyone will probably have counters (generally how PvP stuff works), but if you yourself can play everything then you can just switch stuff out to counter them right back. Obviously, you only have the ability to switch weapons IN combat, but just being able to die, come back and own them the second time is eh. . Idk, it'd make the fighting stale to me. Not to mention it'd cause people to lose their uniqueness to being some very customized fighter or what not.

(March 27th 2013, 08:45 AM)Kilivin Wrote:

(March 27th 2013, 08:35 AM)Sordak Wrote: you dont get it im afraid.

What do you think this means? that you can simulatnoisly sneak and wear heavy armor and fling spells and wear a two hander at the same time?
You have only 6 skill slots.
you can only wield 2 weapon sets.

Wether or not you have maxed out everything is NOT relevant.
you can only use a tiny fraction of all the skills you have anyway.

Honestly, I think it's more that it makes it lose it's unique flavor to what you choose to do. Say someone wants to be a master mage, but instead there is this other guy who just decided to be a master everything and can just switch out his skills to the same thing you worked so hard to get. Turns out, he just has more free time than you so therefore that means your mage isn't as important. Not to mention, everyone will probably have counters (generally how PvP stuff works), but if you yourself can play everything then you can just switch stuff out to counter them right back. Obviously, you only have the ability to switch weapons IN combat, but just being able to die, come back and own them the second time is eh. . Idk, it'd make the fighting stale to me. Not to mention it'd cause people to lose their uniqueness to being some very customized fighter or what not.

so you prefer locking somebody in a terrible position in the metagame because you think it feels better?

This is an MMO. that is not a one time descision like in Skyrim.
if the metagame changes. you suddenly suck. And its not about sticking with it. The Path you chose might play completeley different one month later.

So i cannot agree with that statement.

(March 27th 2013, 08:53 AM)Sordak Wrote:

(March 27th 2013, 08:45 AM)Kilivin Wrote:

(March 27th 2013, 08:35 AM)Sordak Wrote: you dont get it im afraid.

What do you think this means? that you can simulatnoisly sneak and wear heavy armor and fling spells and wear a two hander at the same time?
You have only 6 skill slots.
you can only wield 2 weapon sets.

Wether or not you have maxed out everything is NOT relevant.
you can only use a tiny fraction of all the skills you have anyway.

Honestly, I think it's more that it makes it lose it's unique flavor to what you choose to do. Say someone wants to be a master mage, but instead there is this other guy who just decided to be a master everything and can just switch out his skills to the same thing you worked so hard to get. Turns out, he just has more free time than you so therefore that means your mage isn't as important. Not to mention, everyone will probably have counters (generally how PvP stuff works), but if you yourself can play everything then you can just switch stuff out to counter them right back. Obviously, you only have the ability to switch weapons IN combat, but just being able to die, come back and own them the second time is eh. . Idk, it'd make the fighting stale to me. Not to mention it'd cause people to lose their uniqueness to being some very customized fighter or what not.

so you prefer locking somebody in a terrible position in the metagame because you think it feels better?

This is an MMO. that is not a one time descision like in Skyrim.
if the metagame changes. you suddenly suck. And its not about sticking with it. The Path you chose might play completeley different one month later.

So i cannot agree with that statement.

Then simply allow for people to change their final decision. Why must everything someone does be set in stone?

(March 27th 2013, 09:07 AM)Kilivin Wrote: snip

because the way the system works you either have a point in it or you dont.
you cant just "reset" one handet combat if you get one handet levels by doing one handet combat.
or worse then asign those points to something else.

There is no reason not to allow people to max out everything.
Wich is exactly my point.

I think it should be like any other elder scrolls game. That is, yes, you can continue to build your other skills up after you finish fully leveling one. There really is no advantage to having all the skills maxed other than you will be very versatile to a group. You still are limited to just six abilities just like everyone else is.

Few other things

Leveling to 50 you get points to put into magika, stamina or health, assuming its 50 total points but looks like 150 options to choose from, besiades the ovious stat increase you gain bonuses and abilities so chances are you will be different than most people.

Armor and weapons, you could max out everything but you only get few things to choose from and benefit from what your actually using.

Class trees and race trees, the same have to choose what to use, also looks like abilities will branch off and have different effect / ways you choose what you prefer.

AVA trees, im guessing you apply perk points (leveling up)and there is a limited amount of how many you can spend to what you can have, this could very well also be the way other skill trees work.

Crafting they said has a limited amount of points so you cant master everything, so its possible skill trees do work that way for passives and such but still being able to unlock everything.

(March 27th 2013, 08:45 AM)Kilivin Wrote:

(March 27th 2013, 08:35 AM)Sordak Wrote: you dont get it im afraid.

What do you think this means? that you can simulatnoisly sneak and wear heavy armor and fling spells and wear a two hander at the same time?
You have only 6 skill slots.
you can only wield 2 weapon sets.

Wether or not you have maxed out everything is NOT relevant.
you can only use a tiny fraction of all the skills you have anyway.

Honestly, I think it's more that it makes it lose it's unique flavor to what you choose to do. Say someone wants to be a master mage, but instead there is this other guy who just decided to be a master everything and can just switch out his skills to the same thing you worked so hard to get. Turns out, he just has more free time than you so therefore that means your mage isn't as important.

This is somehow noticeably different from him just logging into his mage-alt which happens to be at or above your level anyway?

That aside: there will be some class-specific skills that are only accessible to that specific class. DragonKnight can maybe join the mage's guild and pick up some magic, but he's not going to have access to the Sorceror's daedric-summoning or stormcalling lines. Sorc can grab a sword and some heavy armour, learn the sword maneuvers, but he's not going to have access to... er, whatever class skills the DK has.

It's more free-form than most other games, but it's not completely freeform.

(March 27th 2013, 08:45 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Not to mention, everyone will probably have counters (generally how PvP stuff works), but if you yourself can play everything then you can just switch stuff out to counter them right back. Obviously, you only have the ability to switch weapons IN combat, but just being able to die, come back and own them the second time is eh.

Again, that's not really any different than just logging on an alt instead.

(March 27th 2013, 08:45 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Idk, it'd make the fighting stale to me. Not to mention it'd cause people to lose their uniqueness to being some very customized fighter or what not.

Cookie-cutter builds will kill most of that 'uniqueness' anyway. Especially if you allow for respecs (hinted at when you ask: "allow for people to change their final decision. Why must everything someone does be set in stone? ")

(March 27th 2013, 08:32 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Will it be possible? With the announcement that after you are level 50 you can go to new entire areas to increase skills then the final area. Not to mention you have apparently 3 AvA skill trees. My question is - will there be enough skills in the game, yet enough limitations to make it to where you can't max everything like you can in Skyrim or other ES games given enough time?

You can compete since beginning, but as you advance your character, you unlock more and more skill lines and both passive and active abilities. Passives provide generic boost, while active ones add to your "deck" of abilities to build from. I doesnt necessary means your character will reach godly status and join the Almsivi, it means mastering another weapon or perhaps being able to act as a healer for your group

Max all isnt possible, as some abilities will never be available to you, generally it means skill lines of other classes, racial lines and vampirismy/lycanthropy should effectively lock each other

Its not about making your character more powerful, its about being able to "do more" progression - and it will be glorious

If you really wanted to, you could have everything in your arsenal and max out all the trees (available to you). But you are still limited by what you put in your ability bars and also by what morph lines you choose (skills split off into morphs at a certain level and you can only have one morph line active at a time).

I think that doing so would make you more flexible as a player (you can handle different situations easier) but it isn't going to make you more powerful.

IMO this kind of kills the whole point of the game being so open ended in regards to weapons/armor. Sure, you can make a 2 handed sorceror, or heavy armor nightblade or any other unique role, but outside of what skills you slot there's really no difficult decisions to make to differentiate from others of the same mold. I would much rather there be a large number of potent passive effects, but you can only slot, say, five at a time. Making difficult, meaningful choices about how your character will function has been a pretty waning aspect of MMOs lately. And I don't mean permanent choices. Respecs are fine. Elder Scrolls online started to break this mold and show a level of customization similar to tabletop D&D3.0, but seems to have stopped half way in this direction. If there is an archery perk for +10% range ALL archers will have this. A far better system would require archers to compare and contrast between this +10% range, compared with faster reload speed, more damage, etc. Make a tough choice about what's more important to you.

So far this is my only gripe with the game and everything else is shaping up to be an improvement. One can only hope they tweak the final product.

i cba to grind for hours. hopefully people will spend their time exploring and questing

I'm thinking it will be a bit like Skyrim in that regard. You can potentially max every stat, however the level cap is at 50 so you can only buy 50 skill perks, weapon perks, etc.

So i just read a new article where it says you can eventually unlock everything in the skill trees BUT each tree has a certain amout of perk points you apply. they give you active skills or passives bonuses, and you have to choose which ones you want as you wont be able to apply them to everything.