Join the Ashes of Creation MMORPG
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)

miscegeny


Started by hillmje
Post #164286
Member

Likes Given: 52
Likes Received: 14
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion
Not Set
the only person in eso that i encountered that was of mixed heritage was lyris. and she was part giant. why can't we have mixed heritage player characters? why are there so few npcs with mixed heritage? i know it's easier to just pigeonbox everyone as either this or that but i feel there's a serious disconnect between the way the eso world is and the way that makes the most sense.

btw, who CAN breed with whom? i guess all humans can produce offspring with each other. but what about orcs, bosmer, altmer, argonians, and khajit? i think mixed race pcs and npcs would be more realistic and fun and a great opportunity to add flavor and complexity to the world of eso.

jon
Like this post Reply
Post #164293
Member

Likes Given: 0
Likes Received: 2
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Imperial
Well, Bretons are the result of man and elf kind interbreeding.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes Kalikit's post:
hillmje
Post #164313
Member

Likes Given: 190
Likes Received: 165
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact
Nord
Mixed parent offspring take the appearance of the mother, with some small traits of the father possibly being present. As such it is not as easy as you would think to pick one out of a lineup. Since Zenimax has allowed the creation of Dunmer with eyes other than red, Altmer with eyes other than green and so on, it is possible to create a mixed parent character and no doubt some of the NPCs will also appear as such. Of course, unless its specifically used as part of a story its just supposition or for RP purposes.

For the lore concerning mixed parenting: Click here.




Like this post Reply
Post #164315
Member

Likes Given: 17
Likes Received: 11
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Breton
This would make things more complicated for the developers, and much more confusing for players. For example, how does one allocate racial skill lines to mixed-race characters?

I think you're free lore-wise to make a mixed-heritage character. You just have to choose a specific race for the skill line and bonuses.

There were lots of mixed-race individuals in lore. In one of the Barenziah stories, I remember reading that Dunmer women are more likely to conceive with a non-Dunmer man than with a Dunmer man. I also read somewhere that a mixed-race child is considered to be of the race of its mother. So there very likely is some lore-wise justification for single-race bonus assignment for mixed-race characters.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes Poldano's post:
hillmje
Post #164390
Member

Likes Given: 52
Likes Received: 14
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion
Not Set
(March 27th 2014, 11:57 PM)Kalikit Wrote: Well, Bretons are the result of man and elf kind interbreeding.

recently? did they stop? are there communities where men and mer live together and raise families? or is it a master/servant kind of interbreeding? either way, i'd like to see it in the es game environment, not just the lore.

jon
Like this post Reply
Post #164388
Member

Likes Given: 52
Likes Received: 14
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion
Not Set
This would make things more complicated for the developers,

It depends on the approach the devs took to address the issue of mixers. Even if they made really complicated character creation (which is unnecessary) to account for miscegeny I think the effort would be well worth it because mixed peoples and cultural overlap would make for a richer mor culturally dynamic es world.

and much more confusing for players.

Again, it depends on how the devs choose to address the issue of miscegeny.


For example, how does one allocate racial skill lines to mixed-race characters?

Supplant racial skill lines with cultural skill lines, regional skill lines, ideological skill lines. Or you can get fiddly and split the differnces between the various races that went into the mix of your character. Or the devs could eliminate racial bonuses altogether. race becomes more of an aesthetic preference than a rigid game mechanic.


I think you're free lore-wise to make a mixed-heritage character. You just have to choose a specific race for the skill line and bonuses.

Yeah I know but just having to choose a specific race with specific racial bonuses seems simplistic, rigid, and silly. This race is good at archery, that race is good at spell casting, this race is good at basketball, that race is good at making money. I'm not a fan of that. I dont think there was any malice or insensitivity by creating a world with strong racial traits and distinctions. I just think culture and individuality are compromised by racial determinism as a game mechanic.

There were lots of mixed-race individuals in lore. In one of the Barenziah stories, I remember reading that Dunmer women are more likely to conceive with a non-Dunmer man than with a Dunmer man.


I love that. Now if only it was not just in the lore but in the playable/interractive part of the game I'd be happier.

I also read somewhere that a mixed-race child is considered to be of the race of its mother. So there very likely is some lore-wise justification for single-race bonus assignment for mixed-race characters.

for me that just sounds like an easy breezy justification for keeping race overly simplistic. there's a million perfectly reasonable what-ifs that would upset that apple cart. but i think eso just is going down the path that has always been in rpgs and high fantasy in general. there are various races that conform to stereotypes (racial bonuses). it's been that way since before pen and paper dungeons and dragons. i was just hoping eso could be a little bit more sophisticated.

i'm deliberately being hyper-critical of the glaring omissions regarding miscegeny because i think eso is going to be the best video game ever. so i must hold it to a higher standard.

i want it all and i want it now...

jon
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes hillmje's post:
Poldano
Post #164405
Member

Likes Given: 206
Likes Received: 633
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion (Altmer)
I find the giant-man couple unlikely. And I wouldn't say that Lyris is a half-giant. Half-giant is just the description of a tall person. Aslong as she herself never says something about her father being a real giant (if her mother was, she wouldn´t be Nord) he is not. There are also many people in Morrowind named Troll-Born. That doesn´t mean that their fathers were trolls.

To Phylogeny: Child race is always mother's race. All races of men and mer are compatible among each other. But not with Khajiit, Argonian nor any other beast race, who are also not compatible among each other unless the beast races are related. (Goblins and Rieklings, maybe?) Because you can interbreed a lion with a tiger (though the offspring is infertile) but not a lion with a crocodile.

There are likely to be many people with mixed heritage, you just wouldn´t notice them, because they just are of the mohter's race. Entirely. To 99,99 %.

There have been odds, though: There was (will be) the 'Grey Prince' of Oblivion. He was a grey skinned Orc whose father was an Imperial
vampire
. Also Umaril the Unfeathered, child of Meridia and ? some Ayleid mortal guy. And Vivec gave birth to many monsters after he was laid by Molag Bal.
This post was last modified: March 28th 2014, 12:45 PM by Idriar


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

Like this post Reply
Post #164457
Member

Likes Given: 239
Likes Received: 179
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Orc
The Reachmen have a mixed heritage, mostly Breton. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Reachmen


~~Welcome to a world of impure imagination!~~
Like this post Reply
Post #164515
Member

Likes Given: 17
Likes Received: 11
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Breton
(March 28th 2014, 11:52 AM)hillmje Wrote: This would make things more complicated for the developers,

It depends on the approach the devs took to address the issue of mixers. Even if they made really complicated character creation (which is unnecessary) to account for miscegeny I think the effort would be well worth it because mixed peoples and cultural overlap would make for a richer mor culturally dynamic es world.

and much more confusing for players.

Again, it depends on how the devs choose to address the issue of miscegeny.


For example, how does one allocate racial skill lines to mixed-race characters?

Supplant racial skill lines with cultural skill lines, regional skill lines, ideological skill lines. Or you can get fiddly and split the differnces between the various races that went into the mix of your character. Or the devs could eliminate racial bonuses altogether. race becomes more of an aesthetic preference than a rigid game mechanic.


I think you're free lore-wise to make a mixed-heritage character. You just have to choose a specific race for the skill line and bonuses.

Yeah I know but just having to choose a specific race with specific racial bonuses seems simplistic, rigid, and silly. This race is good at archery, that race is good at spell casting, this race is good at basketball, that race is good at making money. I'm not a fan of that. I dont think there was any malice or insensitivity by creating a world with strong racial traits and distinctions. I just think culture and individuality are compromised by racial determinism as a game mechanic.

There were lots of mixed-race individuals in lore. In one of the Barenziah stories, I remember reading that Dunmer women are more likely to conceive with a non-Dunmer man than with a Dunmer man.


I love that. Now if only it was not just in the lore but in the playable/interractive part of the game I'd be happier.

I also read somewhere that a mixed-race child is considered to be of the race of its mother. So there very likely is some lore-wise justification for single-race bonus assignment for mixed-race characters.

for me that just sounds like an easy breezy justification for keeping race overly simplistic. there's a million perfectly reasonable what-ifs that would upset that apple cart. but i think eso just is going down the path that has always been in rpgs and high fantasy in general. there are various races that conform to stereotypes (racial bonuses). it's been that way since before pen and paper dungeons and dragons. i was just hoping eso could be a little bit more sophisticated.

i'm deliberately being hyper-critical of the glaring omissions regarding miscegeny because i think eso is going to be the best video game ever. so i must hold it to a higher standard.

i want it all and i want it now...

jon
I dig!

I would like more flexibility too. I was simply rationalizing the current situation.

I have a rule of thumb that goes: any useful theory has to be dumbed-down enough for all of its practitioners to use. The current situation is IMO an instance of that truism.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes Poldano's post:
hillmje
Post #164521
Member

Likes Given: 17
Likes Received: 11
Faction & Race:
Daggerfall Covenant
Breton
(March 28th 2014, 11:12 AM)hillmje Wrote:
(March 27th 2014, 11:57 PM)Kalikit Wrote: Well, Bretons are the result of man and elf kind interbreeding.

recently? did they stop? are there communities where men and mer live together and raise families? or is it a master/servant kind of interbreeding? either way, i'd like to see it in the es game environment, not just the lore.

jon

I cannot claim to know much about the mechanics of heritability in Nirn, but I can easily imagine a selection process that led to Bretons having traits distinct from both Nedic and Mer forebears. Consider that miscegenation most likely started among the lower ranks of Aldmeri. These folks would likely have composed the "magic fodder" of Aldmeri armies, and have been subject to the use of destruction magic of the higher strata of Aldmeri.

At the same time, the higher strata of Aldmeri would have been those with a greater propensity for the destructive use of magic, who would have been able to rely on their subordinate "magic fodder" for the bulk of their defense. Therefore, there likely would have been initial selection pressure differentiating between defensive and offensive magical orientation to magicka according to social stratum.

In the history of High Rock, the original Aldmeri population, in the form of the high houses, was eventually eliminated in pure form. The winners in that long and episodic conflict were mixed-race descendants, who were long-term survivors of frequent rebellions and near-constant guerrilla warfare and banditry. To cut to the finish, in High Rock, the highly-selected defensively-oriented population swamped the smaller numbers of the offensively-oriented population, culminating with the extinction of the Direnni.

Now, by contrast, the Altmer of the second era are generally accepted as being a product of centuries of selective breeding, no doubt for exactly those qualities they and their forebears prized as the distinguishing traits of the highborn Aldmer of old. So at the same time that Bretons were undergoing a form of natural selection for survival against destruction magic, the Altmer were engaged in artificial selection for destruction magic. In neither case can we assume that the populations of today exactly reflect the distribution of traits among the Aldmer of old.

Further evidence in general support of this hypothesis (loose as it is) is provided by Dunmer traits, which show a heightened magic ability compared to purely human-descended races, but not as much of a concentration in magic as either Altmer or Breton. Notably, the Dunmer are not considered to have a substantial component of Nedic ancestry, and their history is not marked by a gradual extinction of their higher social strata to the benefit of the lower strata. The Dunmer may therefore be closer to the original Aldmer norm, in terms of traits, than the Altmer.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes Poldano's post:
hillmje




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)


This fan site is not affiliated with ZeniMax Media Inc. or any of its subsidiaries. Including, but not limited to, Bethesda Game Studios and ZeniMax Online Studios.
The Elder Scrolls® images © ZeniMax Media Inc. / Forum content © TESOF.com