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New dungeons info.


Started by Avidus
Post #76237
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The Elder Scrolls Online - Inside ESO Dungeons

Its not all that spectacular, although to me looks like they haven't been able to stray from the holy trinity.
Which I find a little disappointing.

Id just like to see there dungeons in action first.


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Post #76241
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Honestly, the trinity isn't a bad thing, it becomes a bad thing as soon as it's the only option available to you. They clearly state that the more prepared every member of the group is before you go into an instance and the more abilities they bring to remain versatile, the less need there will be for a designated healer or tank. But even in games where the trinity was the only set option available to people, it all boils down to not being afraid to try things out and test a class's true potential. Back when I still played LotrO a lot (vanilla-LotrO I should add for those who are familiar with it), me and my guildies decided to take down Mordirith with only Lore-masters (CC-class, cloth). That was one of the hardest fights beside the evident raids, and it took a lot of planning and coordination, but we downed him and it was awesome. The trinity is a tool to make things easier, but by no means a rule set in stone.

That's how I play MMO's and I don't plan to change that point of view.




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Post #76242
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I'm actually wondering how viable a group of self-sufficient players would be compared to a holy trinity group.


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Post #76244
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I really want to see one of these dungeons in action. I know if everyone has healing abilitys you can get away without a dedicated healer, but can you get to the point where everyone can mitigate damage so well you don't need a dedicated tank and still put out good damage and heals?


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Post #76245
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imo, how they describe the dungeons looks fine to me. I think the trinity works well in MMO's; and it should work well for TESO as well.
I know that alternative strategies are fun to plan and execute when dealing with tough bosses/NPC's in MMO's (I killed many elites meant for 3-5 players alone with my hunter, paladin and warlock in WoW using various tactics), but if the developers allow for too many options in dungeons - e.g. cc and kiting - the dungeon might get too boring and easy for groups with a tank and/or healer which use these tactics as well to a certain extent.


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Post #76246
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I am actually really pleased to see some positive posts in regards to this. I think the community is starting to understand restrictions of how things can work. :)


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Post #76251
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Personally, I really enjoyed this article. I think it won't mean that just tank and spanking will be too easy, but rather the system allows for versatility. everyone's been there when the healer decides to ragequit and you hafta re-queue, or the tank dies so everyone has to wipe. This system allows players to go into fights a little more prepared for situations like that, where one player might get out of the fight but you could still pull off a win, you just hafta be prepared, know your class and experiment with how you play.

Also, I like how they mentioned every enemy in the room is alerted to you, but not everyone attacks. I'm assuming this means that those who don't attack might take the time to give themselves buffs, perhaps evaluate how you deal with their comrades and adjust strategy accordingly. It's always been kinda weird to me when you pulled a group in other mmo's, and the group right next to it seems to be off in their own little universe.

Generally I think this dungeon system has a lot of promise. It keeps you from being tied down to one role only (unless that's what you want) and allows for greater group dynamics. Communication is gonna be a major key it seems.....if the tank or healer goes down they need to let everyone know, especially whoever was the designated off-tank or off-healer for the group (even four man dungeons include off-roles. That's intriguing....)


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Post #76255
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I am actually liking the swapping roles in the middle of combat. That to me sounds like a strategy changer. Depending on how often you can swap.
Id imagine things like, swap to tank/DPS almost dead, everybody swap to healing, heal up, return.


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Post #76256
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After reading this i think i could pull off playing as Tank, it looks as its not as boring as in other MMO when all you haw to do is keep agro. Hawing other players be responsible for there own lives is quite refreshing, still i am not as naive as to not haw my own doubts, and without actually testing the game in it self i cent make a clear decision.
The good thin is, a player can haw 2 different roles in battle, ofc one at a time, but still a melee dps can switch to tank and tank to melee dps, or any other role he chooses, this makes me believe there will be lots of system's with different combos, and some time situations when you dont need pure healer or pure tank.

(July 1st 2013, 05:21 PM)Avidus Wrote: I am actually liking the swapping roles in the middle of combat. That to me sounds like a strategy changer. Depending on how often you can swap.
Id imagine things like, swap to tank/DPS almost dead, everybody swap to healing, heal up, return.

>_< well... i dont think it will work quite like that, but sure its possibility, 1 pure tank with 3 dps who haw off-healer as 2th set, and only swap when some 1 is low... the only problem i see is that they wont haw enough mana to be effective dps, but it could be compensated with good stamina-magica balance.
This post was last modified: July 1st 2013, 05:33 PM by Ewan
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Post #76260
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To further reinforce the idea that a trinity system doesn't ruin an Elder Scrolls game...

An Elder Scrolls game like Skyrim has much in common with traditional MMO mechanics, though it's a lot more subtle. A clothing wearing mage for example could summon a frost atronach to distract the enemies as he shoots destructive spells from afar. The atronach is getting in the face of the baddies and taking damage from them, while the mage is hitting them with powerful attacks. This works very similar to a tank + dps combo, or even a tank + dps + heals combo if the mage is throwing healing spells at the atronach.

Then you have CC or crowd control mechanics with spells like Calm or Turn Undead. These spells remove enemies from combat that would traditionally swarm you, thus they function as crowd control.

So you could essentially re-enact the trinity system in Skyrim and it could be pretty effective. You could have a follower in heavy armor and with a shield as your Tank. Conjure a storm atronach as your DPS. Then heal both of them as the healer, while CCing any extra monsters that might pop up. Of course this would feel a lot different than an MMO battle, but its fundamentally the same.

Anyways just wanted to put that out there for anyone who may have concerns on the presence of some sort of trinity system.


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Post #76265
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The fact that they feel the need to teach a safety course in order for us to have a chance to survive their game is AWESOME!


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Post #76269
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Lol yah good point. Combat swapping is a sweet idea. I like the idea that we can be versatile and make changes on the fly, potentially shifting the flow of battle. Imagine doing that in a large siege in Cyrodiil.....playing as the defenders, you start losing when suddenly some guy beside you switches to healing and rallies your forces.


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Post #76270
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Of course there will still be people that want the holy trinity because it is all they know, they will be a sword and board heavy armored tank because that's what they've always been etc.
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Post #76298
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And that's where the class system comes in. The reason classes are as they are is to provide a base, a starting point. For those who want a heavy armour big hitter tanky sort of class, dragon knight sounds and looks the part, so they start with that. Sorcerer is where a caster would obviously go. But when people experiment, using unique builds like a dragon knight in cloth and using a resto staff with fire magic for example, when the freedom of TES shines through


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Post #76315
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I very much enjoyed this article! Having to really pay attention to both your enemies and your allies sounds like a fun challenge to me. I am looking forward to playing regularly with my household and learning the best ways to make our various play styles work together. There shall be much butt-kickery! ^-^
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