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Started by RajinKajin
Post #56211
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

/agree
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Post #56216
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/disagree 10000000%

Not a fan of sandbox game play. I dont want to build stuff, or attempt to find my own fun. I want some form of structure but with the caveat to give me choices. Linearity is what kills MMO's and not because its a so-called themepark. Themeparks are fun but you need content to make them fun and coupled with the linearity of gameplay this is what doomed most games trying to copy WoW....On top of the fact the hidden question? Why quit WoW and multiple years invested into playing the same damn game to start over. How many WoW players do you know that delete an account and all of the characters. gear and gold on that account and start over? I know of no one, and that is exactly why WoW clones fail.

Open world gameplay within a Themepark model with "some" sandbox elements is the next generation of MMO gameplay. Mark it down. Games like ESO with deep character progression, freedom of exploration and multiple sources of content (solo, pve, pvp, group, dynamic events, multi-groups, new stuctured content with new guilds like Thieves guild) all will make a better themepark. Slapping a sandbox together and telling people there have at it is a sure fire way to keep your playerbase down as is the WoW linear themepark.
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Post #56222
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(April 2nd 2013, 08:42 PM)Zederok Wrote: /disagree 10000000%

Not a fan of sandbox game play.

Your disagreement is kind of missing the point.

While he does speak highly of sandboxes throughout the video, he's not actually advocating for one sandbox to push out the themeparks and spawn a new generation of sandbox-only gameplay. What he's calling for is summed up in one particular phrase: "five 100-lb gorillas instead of one 500 lb gorilla."He's advocating for a more diverse environment that still leaves you your themepark while giving those of us who do like sandboxes something better to do than flame your favored game in the forums - as well as a couple models in between.

Unless, of course, your disagreement is literally saying "the rest of you have to play games you don't like, so that I dont have to see games I don't like." In which case, you would actually be disagreeing with him.


(March 28th 2013, 10:28 AM)name withheld Wrote: How are two completely independent 4 man groups going to compete?

Obviously by comparing e-peens. :irritated:
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Post #56226
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I'm still waiting for a game to give the feel of pride that Darkage of Camelot did, Its main highlight was the Frontiers with 3way realm vs realm, It was a structured area but also let you do what you wanted there. sure some game have tried that aspect but they miss the purpose that DAOC gave. Once you experienced the realm vs realm you felt like you were now building your character for the purpose of defending your realm, even if you weren't a pvp person. You could be questing, exploring, killing mobs or even crafting. BUT once someone in chat said the enemy players were going after your relic keep, everyone stopped what they were doing, there was a huge panic to get to the frontiers and stop the enemy players. once all was safe, people went back to what they were doing. no game has ever come close to giving that realm pride feeling and it is very hard to explain it to people who didn't get to expierence DAOC. I'm hoping TESO can bring some of that magic back. It has the set up and the developers








Without evil, we would not recognize good.

Remember, true focus lies somewhere between rage and serenity
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Post #56227
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(April 2nd 2013, 10:49 PM)Pirhana7 Wrote: I'm still waiting for a game to give the feel of pride that Darkage of Camelot did, Its main highlight was the Frontiers with 3way realm vs realm, It was a structured area but also let you do what you wanted there. sure some game have tried that aspect but they miss the purpose that DAOC gave. Once you experienced the realm vs realm you felt like you were now building your character for the purpose of defending your realm, even if you weren't a pvp person. You could be questing, exploring, killing mobs or even crafting. BUT once someone in chat said the enemy players were going after your relic keep, everyone stopped what they were doing, there was a huge panic to get to the frontiers and stop the enemy players. once all was safe, people went back to what they were doing. no game has ever come close to giving that realm pride feeling and it is very hard to explain it to people who didn't get to expierence DAOC. I'm hoping TESO can bring some of that magic back. It has the set up and the developers

I like you.
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Post #56231
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(April 2nd 2013, 10:23 PM)Venitas the Heretic Wrote:
(April 2nd 2013, 08:42 PM)Zederok Wrote: /disagree 10000000%

Not a fan of sandbox game play.

Your disagreement is kind of missing the point.

While he does speak highly of sandboxes throughout the video, he's not actually advocating for one sandbox to push out the themeparks and spawn a new generation of sandbox-only gameplay. What he's calling for is summed up in one particular phrase: "five 100-lb gorillas instead of one 500 lb gorilla."He's advocating for a more diverse environment that still leaves you your themepark while giving those of us who do like sandboxes something better to do than flame your favored game in the forums - as well as a couple models in between.

Unless, of course, your disagreement is literally saying "the rest of you have to play games you don't like, so that I dont have to see games I don't like." In which case, you would actually be disagreeing with him.

Its my understanding there are many elements coming together to form ESO so in my view ZOS is going the 5, 100lb gorilla route.
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Post #56232
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(April 3rd 2013, 12:23 AM)Zederok Wrote:
(April 2nd 2013, 10:23 PM)Venitas the Heretic Wrote:
(April 2nd 2013, 08:42 PM)Zederok Wrote: /disagree 10000000%

Not a fan of sandbox game play.

Your disagreement is kind of missing the point.

While he does speak highly of sandboxes throughout the video, he's not actually advocating for one sandbox to push out the themeparks and spawn a new generation of sandbox-only gameplay. What he's calling for is summed up in one particular phrase: "five 100-lb gorillas instead of one 500 lb gorilla."He's advocating for a more diverse environment that still leaves you your themepark while giving those of us who do like sandboxes something better to do than flame your favored game in the forums - as well as a couple models in between.

Unless, of course, your disagreement is literally saying "the rest of you have to play games you don't like, so that I dont have to see games I don't like." In which case, you would actually be disagreeing with him.

Its my understanding there are many elements coming together to form ESO so in my view ZOS is going the 5, 100lb gorilla route.

Again you're missing the point of the analogy.
ZOS is just 1 gorilla, not 5. It's aiming, approximately, to be the gorilla just to the left of the 'full-on themepark' gorilla. Archeage, if I understand it right, is aiming to be the gorilla just to the right of the "full-on sandbox" gorilla. There's two so far.
EQNext and Titan are two other contenders, but I'm not quite sure where they're really going. One is a complete mystery, the other talks up a good sandbox but I'm skeptical they'll pull it out.
This post was last modified: April 3rd 2013, 12:43 AM by Venitas the Heretic


(March 28th 2013, 10:28 AM)name withheld Wrote: How are two completely independent 4 man groups going to compete?

Obviously by comparing e-peens. :irritated:
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Post #56244
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(April 2nd 2013, 07:58 PM)RajinKajin Wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

/agree

My thoughts exactly. I often feel every idea proposed for ESO has to be compared to how things are done in WoW and WoW clones, and what does/does not work there (the 1st/3rd person perspective discussion comes to mind). Thankfully ZOS seem to be able to think outside the Box of Warcraft.


Perfect society is always elsewhere.
~ Old Khajiiti proverb
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Post #56246
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Nothing wrong with themepark MMOs, and nothing wrong with using elements that has proven they work. But he's not wrong. Thanks to WoW we've been getting various repainted and slightly different version off it for the last 8 years or so. Luckily the themepark MMO's are starting to focus more on how to be their own, instead off focusing on how they can be WoW.


Caught between imagination and reality, the truth and the lies, dreaming and waking.
-And wanting it no other way.

I reject your reality and substitute my own
– Adam Savage
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Post #56257
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Yeah, I've seen that before. And I agree to some extent, especially about giving player's tools instead of making player's the tools.

Take EvE & Shadowbane. The politics, the player created economy, the world filled with political drama and tears of those who couldn't handle it. Pure class.


Come, Unstoppable Eraser Rain
Throat Adder | Societas Daemonica
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Post #56258
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All these people complaining there are not enough sandbox games, yet none of them pony up the money to kickstart one of them.

Why? Because they want it to be free to play.


Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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I like freedom .. gaming and otherwise. One reason among thousands that I love Tamriel so much. And my fave other game was Star Wars Galaxies. All of which could be considered sandbox in nature, I guess. Doing what you want when you want to do it is so much nicer than being directed "do this NOW." all the time.

The games I hate the very most are the ones where you have to sort of follow a track and you cannot step off of it, even though there is plenty of scenery and it looks like you could go explore places. But, no, you can't.
This post was last modified: April 3rd 2013, 05:15 AM by CedarLilly


TESO - - Multiplayer: "M'aiq does not know this word. You wish others to help you in your quest? Coward! If you must, search for the Argonian Im-Leet, or perhaps the big Nord, Rolf the Uber. They will certainly wish to join you." M'aiq the Liar.

"Va Khaj Dar - Khajiity's united? M'aiq will join!" M'aiq the Liar
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Post #56270
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(April 3rd 2013, 04:51 AM)Tabbycat Wrote: All these people complaining there are not enough sandbox games, yet none of them pony up the money to kickstart one of them.

Why? Because they want it to be free to play.

And you're basing that on what? Easy enough to label it as complaining.. why not constructively feeding back to the games industry that publishers are missing out on a potentially massive untapped genre that could have more long term efficiency than your standard theme park MMO.
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Post #56279
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I think what the video was getting at is that prior to WoW, MMORPG's constantly changed and evolved for the better. Following the success of WoW, they trended more toward replication than innovation in a failed attempt compete through plagiarism. My first online game was Diablo, then I moved into Ultima Online, EQ, WoW, etc.. It seems that really nothing has changed from EQ til now. EQ seemingly invented the theme park, WoW popularized it like never before, and companies have been afraid to deviate from what appears to be a successful model. All things must eventually come to an end though and I hope with this game we get a nice mix of sandbox, theme park, and perhaps even real innovation in giving us something we have yet to develop a label for.
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I hoping for Perfect Balance between Sandbox and Teampark, that is you can follow Devs team park rout and switch to Sandbox Open world any time you want. But that is the problem how can we let people haw total freedom and keep balance as to not let them abuse it, say a more mature player would try and build a castle with its own quest line, a less mature person would come and destroy that just for kicks or because he had nothing bather to do, that is if they both had Freedom in said world, if we remove that freedom, well whats the point then.
I guess what i am trying to say, imagine Minecraft (with bather graphics ofc) single realm with the size bigger then a planet, with minimal content provide by Devs(like main story or some Key Hubs for player tutorial and orientation), and letting players inside that virgin world with freedom to build there own society, story and challenges, with a minimal control from Dev Crew to keep the balance and fix urgent issues (bugs and glitches). In this said world a person can play any way he or she wants, build a City, become Dungeon Master, become a hero who challenges said dungeon, well etc. Wouldn't you want to be in this Virtual open World? and create your own slice of heaven, or just experience others.
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