Our Queen Versus The Other Faction Rulers

I've always been the kind of person that enjoys delving into the psychological aspect of everything -including a fictional character's capability to rule- so I am interested to see if anyone else shares my way of seeing things.

While each faction leader has their own reasons for wanting to obtain power, I personally believe the right belongs to Ayrenn. My question though, is do you think she is mentally and emotionally ready for such a responsibility? She is only young, especially for an elf, and is suffering many grievances with her father's passing so psychologically she must be rather distraught. I can visualize her being a rather ostentatious ruler that likes to demonstrate her power to the other races. It even says that her reasons for forming this faction are partly personal.

On the other hand, she is strong and very wise. She may use her age to her advantage, allowing others to over-look her as a real threat, and is, by all rights, the true Queen. She is intelligent and not really a supremacist for her race so she would be generally fair. Do you think she is a fitting Queen? What about the other faction leaders? Do you think they would make strong rulers?

Thats a great way of looking at things --- however, you have to take into account that due to faction orientation, each ruler will favor their own side whenever they take control of the whole of Tamriel. Generally speaking, I don't believe any ruler is ready to fully take on the reins.

(June 30th 2013, 02:46 PM)Arbjorn Wrote: Thats a great way of looking at things --- however, you have to take into account that due to faction orientation, each ruler will favor their own side whenever they take control of the whole of Tamriel. Generally speaking, I don't believe any ruler is ready to fully take on the reins.

Fair enough, it would be interesting to see the after-war dynamic!

Firstly: 128.

I know, Devs said 28. But that has to be a transcriptian error. Obviously. Like Cyrodiil Jungle. Enough of that.

Too young to rule? I would say. But furthermore:

It doesn´t matter what she´s been through or what is her current mental state: She is simply not qualified for ruling: Before the official ceremony/ inthronization rite she vanished and therefor her brother Naemon went through the 3.555 days of Sapiarch´s labyrinth regal training, learning the rites of the Altmer and short said, how to rule with the Aldmeri standard. And 3.555 can be only seen as crash course regarding elvish life span.

And all that, "she has seen the whole world, winning over Nords in drinking contest"... An Altmer would rather interpret that as Ayrenn being corrupted by evil Lorkhanic forces dwelling outside the perfect society of Alinor. Having spent years (?) of her life without rules, following chaos and binding herself closer to material existence, moving away from the Altmeri ideal, she can be only seen as fallen. Only banned people would stay outside Alinor for such a long time, I guess. Of course such is tried to be made forgotten with propaganda (source the "unforseen queen")

Quote:All myths and tales, I assure you, preposterous and absurd. Our queen was merely preparing for Praxis and Ceremoniarchy in her own fashion of independent study.

Obviously. So I would say there are many people on Alinor having good reason to be "pissed" cause Ayrenns seized power.

First of all: Naemon. (which Digimon is that? ;)) cause he wants the throne. Probably. Who wouldn´t find it disturbing after 3.555 days in a labyrinth and suddenly... Ayrenn is alive and taking away the throne.

Then the Sapiarchs for they never had the chance to indoctrinate Ayrenn.

And lastly every good High Elf. For she is not supremacist and doesn´t plan to kill all humans. And some of the most nasty beast races. Bu-huu.

No wonder, Ayrenn was lateron assassinated. As far I now.



SO...

To come back to your original question: I would say she has to be a pretty paranoid character with her own race having actually no reason to "love" her (what is unlikely anyway) but many reason to hate her. And there is no advantage to be over looked politically. She therefor has to be an "oderint dum metuant" style ruler in Alinor internal affairs, ruling with an iron fist to keep the snake off of her throat. That´s why I guess she resides in Valenwood.

On the external side: There isn´t a big difference between any of the three rulers... they all came to their position in an unforseen manner. So they all are new to politcal affairs (beside the Bretons) and overlooked by both internal and external foes. We already now for the Pact that Almalexia has far more influence in the Pact, and I guess she has more influence than the Skald King. Not only for they have some kind of elitery democracy, no... she is a goddess. For the Dominion the Aldmeri standard is the "god".

Let´s compare further...

Ayrenn: Father died. Had to live outside Alinor, what is considered worse death sentence by Altmer. Was tortured by Tharn.

Skald King: Mother died, and a large part of his family. Nearly died himself in battle against Akavirian invaders. Besides he loves music.

Emeric: He defeated his enemy. Little bit of political intrigue. The orcs pleadged allegience to him. He married a hot Redguard chick.

Well... I would say atleast in matter of grievance and therefor distraughtness Ayreen is a little ahead of Joruun, while Emeric is far off. Enough of that. So, yes. That Ayrenn seems to cope with that is the only positive point I see. But with nearly the same Joruun has to cope.

Last thing to say...

DEATH TO THE QUEEN! LONG LIVE KING NAEMON!

(June 30th 2013, 03:19 PM)Idriar Wrote: Firstly: 128.

I know, Devs said 28. But that has to be a transcriptian error. Obviously. Like Cyrodiil Jungle. Enough of that.

Too young to rule? I would say. But furthermore:

It doesn´t matter what she´s been through or what is her current mental state: She is simply not qualified for ruling: Before the official ceremony/ inthronization rite she vanished and therefor her brother Naemon went through the 3.555 days of Sapiarch´s labyrinth regal training, learning the rites of the Altmer and short said, how to rule with the Aldmeri standard. And 3.555 can be only seen as crash course regarding elvish life span.

And all that, "she has seen the whole world, winning over Nords in drinking contest"... An Altmer would rather interpret that as Ayrenn being corrupted by evil Lorkhanic forces dwelling outside the perfect society of Alinor. Having spent years (?) of her life without rules, following chaos and binding herself closer to material existence, moving away from the Altmeri ideal, she can be only seen as fallen. Only banned people would stay outside Alinor for such a long time, I guess. Of course such is tried to be made forgotten with propaganda (source the "unforseen queen")

Quote:All myths and tales, I assure you, preposterous and absurd. Our queen was merely preparing for Praxis and Ceremoniarchy in her own fashion of independent study.

Obviously. So I would say there are many people on Alinor having good reason to be "pissed" cause Ayrenns seized power.

First of all: Naemon. (which Digimon is that? ;)) cause he wants the throne. Probably. Who wouldn´t find it disturbing after 3.555 days in a labyrinth and suddenly... Ayrenn is alive and taking away the throne.

Then the Sapiarchs for they never had the chance to indoctrinate Ayrenn.

And lastly every good High Elf. For she is not supremacist and doesn´t plan to kill all humans. And some of the most nasty beast races. Bu-huu.

No wonder, Ayrenn was lateron assassinated. As far I now.



SO...

To come back to your original question: I would say she has to be a pretty paranoid character with her own race having actually no reason to "love" her (what is unlikely anyway) but many reason to hate her. And there is no advantage to be over looked politically. She therefor has to be an "oderint dum metuant" style ruler in Alinor internal affairs, ruling with an iron fist to keep the snake off of her throat. That´s why I guess she resides in Valenwood.

On the external side: There isn´t a big difference between any of the three rulers... they all came to their position in an unforseen manner. So they all are new to politcal affairs (beside the Bretons) and overlooked by both internal and external foes. We already now for the Pact that Almalexia has far more influence in the Pact, and I guess she has more influence than the Skald King. Not only for they have some kind of elitery democracy, no... she is a goddess. For the Dominion the Aldmeri standard is the "god".

Let´s compare further...

Ayrenn: Father died. Had to live outside Alinor, what is considered worse death sentence by Altmer. Was tortured by Tharn.

Skald King: Mother died, and a large part of his family. Nearly died himself in battle against Akavirian invaders. Besides he loves music.

Emeric: He defeated his enemy. Little bit of political intrigue. The orcs pleadged allegience to him. He married a hot Redguard chick.

Well... I would say atleast in matter of grievance and therefor distraughtness Ayreen is a little ahead of Joruun, while Emeric is far off. Enough of that. So, yes. That Ayrenn seems to cope with that is the only positive point I see. But with nearly the same Joruun has to cope.

Last thing to say...

DEATH TO THE QUEEN! LONG LIVE KING NAEMON!

All of this is very thought provoking. I thank you for sharing (: Clearly she isn't right for the job but I still stand by my choice as part of the Aldmeri Dominion. Obviously you do as well. I dislike Emeric... He's smart but hardly leader material in this girl's opinion... and Joruun is really just a lucky nordic warrior.
One question: what would Naemon digi-volve to? :P

(June 30th 2013, 06:22 PM)BlytheAlarynn Wrote:

(June 30th 2013, 03:19 PM)Idriar Wrote: Firstly: 128.

I know, Devs said 28. But that has to be a transcriptian error. Obviously. Like Cyrodiil Jungle. Enough of that.

Too young to rule? I would say. But furthermore:

It doesn´t matter what she´s been through or what is her current mental state: She is simply not qualified for ruling: Before the official ceremony/ inthronization rite she vanished and therefor her brother Naemon went through the 3.555 days of Sapiarch´s labyrinth regal training, learning the rites of the Altmer and short said, how to rule with the Aldmeri standard. And 3.555 can be only seen as crash course regarding elvish life span.

And all that, "she has seen the whole world, winning over Nords in drinking contest"... An Altmer would rather interpret that as Ayrenn being corrupted by evil Lorkhanic forces dwelling outside the perfect society of Alinor. Having spent years (?) of her life without rules, following chaos and binding herself closer to material existence, moving away from the Altmeri ideal, she can be only seen as fallen. Only banned people would stay outside Alinor for such a long time, I guess. Of course such is tried to be made forgotten with propaganda (source the "unforseen queen")

Quote:All myths and tales, I assure you, preposterous and absurd. Our queen was merely preparing for Praxis and Ceremoniarchy in her own fashion of independent study.

Obviously. So I would say there are many people on Alinor having good reason to be "pissed" cause Ayrenns seized power.

First of all: Naemon. (which Digimon is that? ;)) cause he wants the throne. Probably. Who wouldn´t find it disturbing after 3.555 days in a labyrinth and suddenly... Ayrenn is alive and taking away the throne.

Then the Sapiarchs for they never had the chance to indoctrinate Ayrenn.

And lastly every good High Elf. For she is not supremacist and doesn´t plan to kill all humans. And some of the most nasty beast races. Bu-huu.

No wonder, Ayrenn was lateron assassinated. As far I now.



SO...

To come back to your original question: I would say she has to be a pretty paranoid character with her own race having actually no reason to "love" her (what is unlikely anyway) but many reason to hate her. And there is no advantage to be over looked politically. She therefor has to be an "oderint dum metuant" style ruler in Alinor internal affairs, ruling with an iron fist to keep the snake off of her throat. That´s why I guess she resides in Valenwood.

On the external side: There isn´t a big difference between any of the three rulers... they all came to their position in an unforseen manner. So they all are new to politcal affairs (beside the Bretons) and overlooked by both internal and external foes. We already now for the Pact that Almalexia has far more influence in the Pact, and I guess she has more influence than the Skald King. Not only for they have some kind of elitery democracy, no... she is a goddess. For the Dominion the Aldmeri standard is the "god".

Let´s compare further...

Ayrenn: Father died. Had to live outside Alinor, what is considered worse death sentence by Altmer. Was tortured by Tharn.

Skald King: Mother died, and a large part of his family. Nearly died himself in battle against Akavirian invaders. Besides he loves music.

Emeric: He defeated his enemy. Little bit of political intrigue. The orcs pleadged allegience to him. He married a hot Redguard chick.

Well... I would say atleast in matter of grievance and therefor distraughtness Ayreen is a little ahead of Joruun, while Emeric is far off. Enough of that. So, yes. That Ayrenn seems to cope with that is the only positive point I see. But with nearly the same Joruun has to cope.

Last thing to say...

DEATH TO THE QUEEN! LONG LIVE KING NAEMON!

All of this is very thought provoking. I thank you for sharing (: Clearly she isn't right for the job but I still stand by my choice as part of the Aldmeri Dominion. Obviously you do as well. I dislike Emeric... He's smart but hardly leader material in this girl's opinion... and Joruun is really just a lucky nordic warrior.
One question: what would Naemon digi-volve to? :P

Emeric is, naturally, a merchant. For him to become the emperor means for him to put the economy of High Rock and outlying territories surrounding it that form the Daggerfall Covenant before the economies of the rest of Tamriel, purely due to the fact that those same territories sided with him.

I would choose Jorunn above all others simply because he has no political agenda, and the fact that he is a natural leader of men. Some may argue that having no strong political views would make for an unpassionate leader, but I think differently. In fact, having no political agenda would open up the Ebonheart Pact to aid those who are in desperate need of help, such as Elwsyer (sorry if I botched that) and the Black Marsh.

Hope this provoked even further consideration and thought!

(June 30th 2013, 07:44 PM)Arbjorn Wrote:

(June 30th 2013, 06:22 PM)BlytheAlarynn Wrote:

(June 30th 2013, 03:19 PM)Idriar Wrote: Firstly: 128.

I know, Devs said 28. But that has to be a transcriptian error. Obviously. Like Cyrodiil Jungle. Enough of that.

Too young to rule? I would say. But furthermore:

It doesn´t matter what she´s been through or what is her current mental state: She is simply not qualified for ruling: Before the official ceremony/ inthronization rite she vanished and therefor her brother Naemon went through the 3.555 days of Sapiarch´s labyrinth regal training, learning the rites of the Altmer and short said, how to rule with the Aldmeri standard. And 3.555 can be only seen as crash course regarding elvish life span.

And all that, "she has seen the whole world, winning over Nords in drinking contest"... An Altmer would rather interpret that as Ayrenn being corrupted by evil Lorkhanic forces dwelling outside the perfect society of Alinor. Having spent years (?) of her life without rules, following chaos and binding herself closer to material existence, moving away from the Altmeri ideal, she can be only seen as fallen. Only banned people would stay outside Alinor for such a long time, I guess. Of course such is tried to be made forgotten with propaganda (source the "unforseen queen")

Quote:All myths and tales, I assure you, preposterous and absurd. Our queen was merely preparing for Praxis and Ceremoniarchy in her own fashion of independent study.

Obviously. So I would say there are many people on Alinor having good reason to be "pissed" cause Ayrenns seized power.

First of all: Naemon. (which Digimon is that? ;)) cause he wants the throne. Probably. Who wouldn´t find it disturbing after 3.555 days in a labyrinth and suddenly... Ayrenn is alive and taking away the throne.

Then the Sapiarchs for they never had the chance to indoctrinate Ayrenn.

And lastly every good High Elf. For she is not supremacist and doesn´t plan to kill all humans. And some of the most nasty beast races. Bu-huu.

No wonder, Ayrenn was lateron assassinated. As far I now.



SO...

To come back to your original question: I would say she has to be a pretty paranoid character with her own race having actually no reason to "love" her (what is unlikely anyway) but many reason to hate her. And there is no advantage to be over looked politically. She therefor has to be an "oderint dum metuant" style ruler in Alinor internal affairs, ruling with an iron fist to keep the snake off of her throat. That´s why I guess she resides in Valenwood.

On the external side: There isn´t a big difference between any of the three rulers... they all came to their position in an unforseen manner. So they all are new to politcal affairs (beside the Bretons) and overlooked by both internal and external foes. We already now for the Pact that Almalexia has far more influence in the Pact, and I guess she has more influence than the Skald King. Not only for they have some kind of elitery democracy, no... she is a goddess. For the Dominion the Aldmeri standard is the "god".

Let´s compare further...

Ayrenn: Father died. Had to live outside Alinor, what is considered worse death sentence by Altmer. Was tortured by Tharn.

Skald King: Mother died, and a large part of his family. Nearly died himself in battle against Akavirian invaders. Besides he loves music.

Emeric: He defeated his enemy. Little bit of political intrigue. The orcs pleadged allegience to him. He married a hot Redguard chick.

Well... I would say atleast in matter of grievance and therefor distraughtness Ayreen is a little ahead of Joruun, while Emeric is far off. Enough of that. So, yes. That Ayrenn seems to cope with that is the only positive point I see. But with nearly the same Joruun has to cope.

Last thing to say...

DEATH TO THE QUEEN! LONG LIVE KING NAEMON!

All of this is very thought provoking. I thank you for sharing (: Clearly she isn't right for the job but I still stand by my choice as part of the Aldmeri Dominion. Obviously you do as well. I dislike Emeric... He's smart but hardly leader material in this girl's opinion... and Joruun is really just a lucky nordic warrior.
One question: what would Naemon digi-volve to? :P

Emeric is, naturally, a merchant. For him to become the emperor means for him to put the economy of High Rock and outlying territories surrounding it that form the Daggerfall Covenant before the economies of the rest of Tamriel, purely due to the fact that those same territories sided with him.

I would choose Jorunn above all others simply because he has no political agenda, and the fact that he is a natural leader of men. Some may argue that having no strong political views would make for an unpassionate leader, but I think differently. In fact, having no political agenda would open up the Ebonheart Pact to aid those who are in desperate need of help, such as Elwsyer (sorry if I botched that) and the Black Marsh.

Hope this provoked even further consideration and thought!

But would Jorunn's lack of political experience (and more than likely lack of ambition to acquire said experience) put him at a crossroads? To be a leader, you must be great and powerful, yet fair and just. Politics comes in to play in every leader's reign, it's inevitable. Do you believe he would handle that well?

I believe he would come to handle it well, in the sense that he's been appointed as High King of Skyrim, which has consequently given him the required experience to lead the Ebonheart Pact as High King of the Great Moot. He's just as qualified as the other two rulers in my opinion, however, he may lack the experience economically that Emeric withholds, and the political experience that Ayrenn has picked up being the heir to the ruler of the Summerset Isles.

The Ebonheart Pact will always need a leader just like Jorunn, because he embodies the cause that has driven the Argonians, Dunmer and Nords to ally together into one cohesive force. He's strong-willed, dedicated, and an amazing warrior... however, the entire empire are not consisted (sadly, might I add) of Nords or the other races.

Indeed, neither ruler can truly rule the empire without pissing off several other races. Ayrenn represents order, something that the Aldmeri Dominion is fond of, though the other two pacts might not be as much. Same goes for Emeric, who represents a fluid economy, and Jorunn, who represents honor and war. Altmer and Nords do not think alike, nor do Orsimer and Bosmer, Breton nor Argonian, Khajiit nor Redguard.

I believe its all a matter of decisiveness and timeliness. We'll just have to see though!

(June 30th 2013, 02:00 PM)BlytheAlarynn Wrote: I've always been the kind of person that enjoys delving into the psychological aspect of everything -including a fictional character's capability to rule- so I am interested to see if anyone else shares my way of seeing things.

While each faction leader has their own reasons for wanting to obtain power, I personally believe the right belongs to Ayrenn. My question though, is do you think she is mentally and emotionally ready for such a responsibility? She is only young, especially for an elf, and is suffering many grievances with her father's passing so psychologically she must be rather distraught. I can visualize her being a rather ostentatious ruler that likes to demonstrate her power to the other races. It even says that her reasons for forming this faction are partly personal.

On the other hand, she is strong and very wise. She may use her age to her advantage, allowing others to over-look her as a real threat, and is, by all rights, the true Queen. She is intelligent and not really a supremacist for her race so she would be generally fair. Do you think she is a fitting Queen? What about the other faction leaders? Do you think they would make strong rulers?

I have one question, first she is 28 years old (it were changed) and 28 year old Girls usually arent wise and not very wise, maybe a 250 years old elf would be very wise, or maybe a 60+ year old man or beast would be very wise (or younger, depending on what race).
________________________________________________________

I have no hatred for the races of Man (no but you Think they are Young and idiot Childs), but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age (*sigh* you are 28 years old you arent wise if you say that, all the leaders and maybe more than 50% of all people of Tamriel are older than you). I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. (wich says (to me anyway) "I want to put an Altmer infant on the throne rather than someone else because we are the best race and deserves to rule, the humans are to stupid and Young to rule, so stupid and Young that even one of our infants can do it better)

The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. (Hah! Thats what they Think, its called arrogance my good friends and in this case it has some ignorance in it too.) We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, (Stop denying it you seek dominance "Aldmeri Dominion"... actually Aldmeri Dominion means "home of the elves". The Altmer for example has Always enslaved others when they have had the chance, like the goblin slaves.) nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. (I Think I have made my Point here ;) )

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us.

Just one more thing I have noticed (or Thinks)

She is an Altmer they arent much physically strong, and due to her age I am sure she isnt very strong in her magic either, it takes many many years to get a Power to compete with the strong mages.

This is my opinion + logic + knowledge of the lore.
I just want to now why you have written what you did, and felt to read the letter and see what it meant, (to see the hidden Words and find the stuff Worth noticing in it.

^ 128. I know, the sources say 28. Transcription error ;)

And yes, Ayrenn can only be seen as noob. And yes, elves see themself superiour. Doesn´t fit together. But the truth is they are just overcompensating their weakness and inability to adapt to material existence. Ayrenn on the other Hand fell to material existence. Still she should have the Altmer worldview and is seen as a noob ;)

Well I side with Queen Ayrenn. To me, she is the best candidate of the 3. She has seen most of tamriel so has a little insight to the various cultures, and has seen first hand the corruption in the imperial city. So she has a good reason to try and take the throne, and as the empress, her experience in the other provinces may provide her with cultural insight to maintain a good empire.

Jorunn, although a great soldier, I'm not convinced he would make a good emperor. As a soldier, he knows how to fight wars which granted is great for the Ebonhart Pact. But would his expertise in warfare be valuable in trying to maintain a peaceful empire? Sure it woud be great if the empire went to war, but who wants to constantly be at war to keep the empire great?

And Emeric, just no. He's a merchant, his main interest is money. When I see Emeric, I see a ruler who would fuel corruption through business and gold, and making decisions based on how much money he would make from them.

With all that being said, I am in no way trying to insult any soldiers of any faction. I'm in the Army so I know that the morals and beliefs of a leader do not automatically mean those are the same for the soldiers. I'm sure everybody has their own personal reason for joining whichever faction, but that is my thoughts on the leaders of the alliances.

(July 1st 2013, 04:35 AM)DoRakk Wrote: So she has a good reason to try and take the throne.

Nicely said, she can try but she'll never succeed!

(June 30th 2013, 11:11 PM)Archmage Alator Wrote: I just want to now why you have written what you did, and felt to read the letter and see what it meant, (to see the hidden Words and find the stuff Worth noticing in it.

Your entire post brought up some great points and obviously some fatalities in her ruling capabilities. I wanted to prove both sides, and I suppose that her experiences away from her homeland would have made her wise beyond her years. However, you are absolutely right that she is still a very young elf. It is all up to interpretation of words in reality and I think that's what makes the choice so exciting - each player fighting for their own reason in their own faction.

(July 1st 2013, 04:35 AM)DoRakk Wrote: I'm sure everybody has their own personal reason for joining whichever faction, but that is my thoughts on the leaders of the alliances.

I appreciate your answer! It seems you and I have a similar way of viewing things!

So, after reading @Idriar first post, I pretty much love Ayrenn, he made her sound so fricking awesome.
WHOAH IDRIAR IS AN ALTMER, WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN.