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Will you pre-order the imperial edition
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Pay Gate to Hell!!! -A look at Imperial Added Content


Started by Volg gro-Orakh
Post #139764
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A lot of people have been discussing the lift on faction locks, the pre-order bonuses, and their opinions on such. However, I have not seen a lot of posts about the Imperial pre-order bonus content that are very flushed out.
  • If Imperial race (previously unavailable) is available exclusively through pre-order and never through cash market transactions for the game, does it remain a pay gate?

  • Does anyone have an issue with the other pre-order content (i.e. Rings of Mara, stallion, vanity pets, etc.)?

  • What about the treasure maps?

  • What do you suggest would have been a more effective and less alarming pre-order content?
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Post #139770
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TESO is the first game in a very long time where I feel the pre-order incentives are worth the pre-order. *shrug* I'm fine with it as is.



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Post #139772
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Being one to play an Imperial in every ES game first I pre-ordered it. Not to mention you get a sweet map & molag bal statue. . . I mean comon! xD


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Post #139779
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There are three things I have problems with about the Imperial Edition and pre-order bonuses, and all are Pay-to-Win arguments.

1. The mount. A mount is NOT a vanity item. A mount gives you all kinds of advantages in MMOs. Even if they weren't expensive and relatively ("relatively" varying wildly between different people based on luck and other factors) cheap, it's still a utility item being bought with real world money which ZOS fiercely denied would ever happen. The only way I see this working is that it's more like a mount "skin" instead of the mount itself. That way the person would have to earn a mount like anyone else, but it still being special. If mounts are dirt cheap though and obtainable almost right away in the game, then... *shrug*.

2. The rings of Mara. For those who don't know, Rings of Mara are what is used to go through a bonding ceremony where you and the other person both get exp boosts when grouped together. Some people think that exp boosts give unfair advantages, some people don't. I'm personally on the fence based on details such as exp boost rate, how expensive they are, etc. If it's only like 5%, then that's pretty much nothing and becomes more like a "fun" item. If the boost is closer to 15% though, then the problems start. Much like the horse, if the rings are expensive in-game (which ZOS has said can definitely get pricey), then you're allowing someone to buy a boost with real money that would be an inconvenience for normal players to obtain.

3. The treasure maps. "Pay us money to be told where treasure is found in the game". Practically the same as selling special golden keys that unlock special chests in the world. You're selling something that gives players stuff that normal players wouldn't be able to find. Absolutely Pay-to-Win. Even though it's not any extra cost as both versions can get it, it's still the idea of "Give us money now to get advantages that others don't get".

As for others being able to play an Imperial? I personally don't care as long as their racial abilities aren't imbalanced. Getting a mudcrab pet? Pure vanity, no problems there. But with the other things ZOS has shown poor decision making and I'm starting to seriously doubt buying this game if this is how ZOS is going to treat a Pay-to-play business model.


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Post #139783
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All, and I mean ALL, pre-orders for videos games give some bonus vanity or otherwise to those that pre-purchase the game. Doing so does not make the game pay-to-win? The Horse and the rings as pay-to-win items? Seriously? HOW? Oh wow he gets to ride before I do, it's sooooooooo not fair! Damn, that couple is leveling faster than me, I demand compensation! They are minor boosts to people who pre-order the collector's editions. It's not like the Horse will give a level 10 an advantage in PvP, everyone has access to a horse in Cyrodill from the get go.


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Post #139826
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i like the imperial version of this game.

Nothing with that version is a game chancer or a game breaker.
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Post #139833
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(January 31st 2014, 09:19 AM)Stitchersflock Wrote: All, and I mean ALL, pre-orders for videos games give some bonus vanity or otherwise to those that pre-purchase the game. Doing so does not make the game pay-to-win? The Horse and the rings as pay-to-win items? Seriously? HOW? Oh wow he gets to ride before I do, it's sooooooooo not fair! Damn, that couple is leveling faster than me, I demand compensation! They are minor boosts to people who pre-order the collector's editions. It's not like the Horse will give a level 10 an advantage in PvP, everyone has access to a horse in Cyrodill from the get go.

It's less of a "Oh wow, they have SUCH an advantage over me" and more of a "They charged real world money for a utility item" which is pretty much THE thing that people expect to not happen if a game has a subscription model. Even if it's not too much of a bonus it's still giving a bonus. I'm not bashing the fact that there are pre-order bonuses. As I clearly stated, I don't care about the mudcrab vanity pet and I don't care too much about things not being faction-locked for pre-orders. I ONLY care about the fact that utility items are being given out based on people giving ZOS money (which is pay-to-win even if only by a small margin). If a game has a subscription model then there should be absolutely zero pay-to-win in any fashion. A horse doesn't do much by itself, but it allows players to gather resources faster than others and go through content at an increased speed. That makes it a utility item that falls under the "pay-to-win" umbrella of goods. As I also clearly stated, when it comes to the rings it greatly depends on the amount of increased experience. A small amount is no big deal. Good for them. A large increase means that they have an advantage over others for paying money (being able to unlock skills and increase your stats faster in PvP is a pretty good advantage if it's a wide enough margin). Unless it's practically impossible to tell the difference in the exp gain, it's clearly a situation where someone who paid extra money now has an advantage over other players which should never happen in a subscription model game.
This post was last modified: January 31st 2014, 01:13 PM by vigk vagk v2


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Post #139854
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I pre-order the standard, as I/everyone can upgrade later on if one feel it's worth it


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Post #139871
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(January 31st 2014, 09:07 AM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: There are three things I have problems with about the Imperial Edition and pre-order bonuses, and all are Pay-to-Win arguments.

1. The mount. A mount is NOT a vanity item. A mount gives you all kinds of advantages in MMOs. Even if they weren't expensive and relatively ("relatively" varying wildly between different people based on luck and other factors) cheap, it's still a utility item being bought with real world money which ZOS fiercely denied would ever happen. The only way I see this working is that it's more like a mount "skin" instead of the mount itself. That way the person would have to earn a mount like anyone else, but it still being special. If mounts are dirt cheap though and obtainable almost right away in the game, then... *shrug*.

2. The rings of Mara. For those who don't know, Rings of Mara are what is used to go through a bonding ceremony where you and the other person both get exp boosts when grouped together. Some people think that exp boosts give unfair advantages, some people don't. I'm personally on the fence based on details such as exp boost rate, how expensive they are, etc. If it's only like 5%, then that's pretty much nothing and becomes more like a "fun" item. If the boost is closer to 15% though, then the problems start. Much like the horse, if the rings are expensive in-game (which ZOS has said can definitely get pricey), then you're allowing someone to buy a boost with real money that would be an inconvenience for normal players to obtain.

3. The treasure maps. "Pay us money to be told where treasure is found in the game". Practically the same as selling special golden keys that unlock special chests in the world. You're selling something that gives players stuff that normal players wouldn't be able to find. Absolutely Pay-to-Win. Even though it's not any extra cost as both versions can get it, it's still the idea of "Give us money now to get advantages that others don't get".

As for others being able to play an Imperial? I personally don't care as long as their racial abilities aren't imbalanced. Getting a mudcrab pet? Pure vanity, no problems there. But with the other things ZOS has shown poor decision making and I'm starting to seriously doubt buying this game if this is how ZOS is going to treat a Pay-to-play business model.

1. Its a horse, a horse wasn't expensive in skyrim. its a horse.

2. Its the same thing as in Skyrim you pay so much(not much probably) to marry a player or players. Its something that everyone has known about for 8 months. Pre-order CE you get it alil sooner big deal.

3. This one no big deal, why didn't you complain about playing the game early when its almost the same. That gives you a advantage over other players 2.

Its a CE they wanted to make it worth it and they did honestly most people were upset with any faction for any race more then the actual CE until the latest Shoddycast video came out.
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Post #139883
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(January 31st 2014, 09:07 AM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: There are three things I have problems with about the Imperial Edition and pre-order bonuses, and all are Pay-to-Win arguments.

1. The mount. A mount is NOT a vanity item. A mount gives you all kinds of advantages in MMOs. Even if they weren't expensive and relatively ("relatively" varying wildly between different people based on luck and other factors) cheap, it's still a utility item being bought with real world money which ZOS fiercely denied would ever happen. The only way I see this working is that it's more like a mount "skin" instead of the mount itself. That way the person would have to earn a mount like anyone else, but it still being special. If mounts are dirt cheap though and obtainable almost right away in the game, then... *shrug*.

2. The rings of Mara. For those who don't know, Rings of Mara are what is used to go through a bonding ceremony where you and the other person both get exp boosts when grouped together. Some people think that exp boosts give unfair advantages, some people don't. I'm personally on the fence based on details such as exp boost rate, how expensive they are, etc. If it's only like 5%, then that's pretty much nothing and becomes more like a "fun" item. If the boost is closer to 15% though, then the problems start. Much like the horse, if the rings are expensive in-game (which ZOS has said can definitely get pricey), then you're allowing someone to buy a boost with real money that would be an inconvenience for normal players to obtain.

3. The treasure maps. "Pay us money to be told where treasure is found in the game". Practically the same as selling special golden keys that unlock special chests in the world. You're selling something that gives players stuff that normal players wouldn't be able to find. Absolutely Pay-to-Win. Even though it's not any extra cost as both versions can get it, it's still the idea of "Give us money now to get advantages that others don't get".

As for others being able to play an Imperial? I personally don't care as long as their racial abilities aren't imbalanced. Getting a mudcrab pet? Pure vanity, no problems there. But with the other things ZOS has shown poor decision making and I'm starting to seriously doubt buying this game if this is how ZOS is going to treat a Pay-to-play business model.

You make very good points.

Might you have any suggestions on an alternative that would be just as strong an incentive pre-order?
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Post #140028
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Theres already like 5000 of these threads with not one valid complaint other than the lore-breaking aspect of the open race perk (though most people dont care). Basically all I'm seeing is a bunch of people that want to complain about something and they found their crutch.

1. A horse that is no faster than any other horse in Tamriel is not in any way an advantage when you can get a horse right off the bat anyways. Its strictly asthetic

2. The rings of mara are a statistical sacrifice for boosted experience gain. Yes you get more experience, but you give up a ring slot that could otherwise have given you an offensive or defensive boost, thus making each and every fight harder.

3. The treasure maps aren't going to lead to overpowered items that give their respective players automatic wins. It will most likely be low level gear/rewards that will be discarded or used within hours. It is not "absolutely pay to win", it is nothing even close to P2W. That is is a vast exaggeration for obvious reasons.

This is simply limited edition content available for those that are willing and able to go after it, and no real advantage will be gained from it. They've already stated that the imperial edition is designed to avoid rewarding players with competitive advantages. Thats directly from the mouth of ZOS developers in their latest Q&A (a great thread from Horizon Seeker)

http://www.tesof.com/topic-ask-us-anythi...ty-pack-12
This post was last modified: January 31st 2014, 06:33 PM by Dark Souls Mantra


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(January 31st 2014, 01:07 PM)vigk vagk v2 Wrote: It's less of a "Oh wow, they have SUCH an advantage over me" and more of a "They charged real world money for a utility item" which is pretty much THE thing that people expect to not happen if a game has a subscription model.

If you didn't expect that then you haven't been paying attention to the genre for a while.

As much as I dislike true P2W I do define it differently.

1. You would have a point here if you knew any details about this mount. So, do you? At what level can you access it? At what level (and cost) can other players get their mount? How fast is it? Will it be available in Cyrodiil? If not merely cosmetic all this will likely do is help you level up slightly faster.

2. There's nothing winning about racing to 50. You get there slightly ahead of most people. So what? You would possibly gain some upper hand in PvP for about a week. Money well spent.

3. Why are you calling it "something that gives players stuff that normal players wouldn't be able to find"? Is the loot truly exclusive to those with maps, or did they merely spoil the fun of discovery? How good is this loot?

To me, there is nothing "winning" about these perks. Now if you could buy something other players won't have, or would have serious trouble getting with in-game currency...
I'm used to DDO where you can pay extra to get higher stats (more damage). Now that's P2W.


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I'll start by saying that yes, having to pay extra to get free in game stuff that will benefit the player isn't fair when the game has a monthly sub. Now that being said, I think a lot of you are over reacting about the items you get, nothing about it is P2W

The mount is just a mount that's the same speed as every other mount, sure you will be moving faster then the other players for about 10-15 levels. It's not like the Imperial mount is faster, or better in any way at all.

The rings you get are also available in game, so it isn't like you won't be able to get it yourself in game. No one even knows how much of a experience boost you will get. Once again, not a P2W item.

I can't say much about the treasure maps because of the NDA, all I can say is it won't make much of a impact at all at any point during the game.


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Post #140163
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(January 31st 2014, 07:49 AM)Volg gro-Orakh Wrote: A lot of people have been discussing the lift on faction locks, the pre-order bonuses, and their opinions on such. However, I have not seen a lot of posts about the Imperial pre-order bonus content that are very flushed out.
  • If Imperial race (previously unavailable) is available exclusively through pre-order and never through cash market transactions for the game, does it remain a pay gate?

  • Does anyone have an issue with the other pre-order content (i.e. Rings of Mara, stallion, vanity pets, etc.)?

  • What about the treasure maps?

  • What do you suggest would have been a more effective and less alarming pre-order content?

The lock removal Is BAD, just plain bad. As to the Imperial edition. It's a pay to play element right from the start In a Sub model and a cash grab It also appears. All of the type other stuff Is just normal 3-5 days head start and a stupid little pet ect.


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(January 31st 2014, 07:10 PM)LordSteel Wrote: snip

If you cant come up with anything other than complete negativity based off your opinion with no constructive comments then please stop posting, its not helping anybody.

Lets do logical thinking here.
You get a horse, useful? yes of course.. But no more useful than the horses anybody else will be getting, and who said you can use it right away? Perhaps you will still need training to ride a horse, who knows.

The rings, EXP boost = nothing. it just shortens your play experience, therefor to me has no value an I wont be using them anyway, Also most likely will take up a ring slot in which you could have a useful ring.

The mudcrab.. Vanity, nuff said.

Playing an Imperial, as they have explained your imperial character was outcast for not worshipping the daedra. does not need more lore than that, it also doesn't limit the amount of imperials.

Treasure maps? like you wont find wiki pages littered with this information as soon as it gets into public hands..


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