PvP strat.. maybe?

Since we can switch weapons willynilly (apparently) does that mean there is nothing keeping people from just getting two of the same really good weapons & applying extra skills that are good for them, but they just can't fit on their single 5-skill hotbar?

So, say I want to have 10 skills for my warrior that are all 1-handed weapon & shield instead of just 5, I just make my second weapon set also 1-handed & shield. Unless, this won't be allowed. . in other words, if you have a second set of weapons, you can't make it the same set that you have in your main set. BASICALLY, if you have a two-hander in one swapthing you can't put another two-hander in the second. Obviously, you'd have to get another item that's really good or the exact same weapon you already have, but I don't see that as much of a problemo really.

Because honestly if you can do this, every mage is just going to put a stalf in main & offset and have 10 skills essentially. . right? O.o

I also do note this could be used for PvE as well as PvP.

right

Yea, I think you can do it, but, what I'm most afriad of, is everyone and their mother having a Resto staff for PvP.

even if you can do this, only 2 skills are weapon abilities if i recall. so technically you only get 4 skills as i think the 3 class skills and ultimate stay the same, maybe not tho

No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

I don't see a problem with doing this, I think you would be better off with something different for a different situation. if your primary sword and shield you would probably want a ranged weapon swap like bow or staff. remember the abilities are not on cool downs, they use magika and stamina which u need to manage. 3 of the slots are your magic abilities which you could have on any lay ouch regardless of the weapons set you use. The other 2 slots are weapon abilities, so yah you could have 2 sword abilities on one bar and 2 more on the next but I really don't think it has an advanatage, I would think your at a disadvantage because you have the same weapon layout instead of something that could really help you in a different situation

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(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Ferroc Wrote: No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

I don't think it would be anywhere near an exploit, I think your gimping your self to have the same weapon on swap just to gain 2 different weapon utility skills when you could have a different weapon that would work a lot better for a different situation

(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Ferroc Wrote: No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

Hehe, my goal in PvP is to beat those who are immersed into the curb. haha, naw I don't think it'll so much break immersion, but I can just see something like this being very powerful if you're good at switching your weapons and all that. . unless there's some negative to switching weapons mid-combat, but from what I've seen there is none.

Well I'm pretty sure everything but your ultimate can change when switching load outs but I might be wrong. But I agree having the same weapon combination in both load outs is redundant. Just for a few extra attacks you are very right it isn't worth it. You lose your flexibility in combat and make it difficult to adjust to new scenarios. I'm with yah on this one it shouldn't be like not allowed but there are better alternatives

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This was a reply to pirhana ^

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To killvin I would say really we will hafta wait and see. Yah it could be useful but like I said it could be just as detrimental as it could be useful.

(March 30th 2013, 05:25 PM)Kilivin Wrote: Since we can switch weapons willynilly (apparently) does that mean there is nothing keeping people from just getting two of the same really good weapons & applying extra skills that are good for them, but they just can't fit on their single 5-skill hotbar?

So, say I want to have 10 skills for my warrior that are all 1-handed weapon & shield instead of just 5, I just make my second weapon set also 1-handed & shield. Unless, this won't be allowed. . in other words, if you have a second set of weapons, you can't make it the same set that you have in your main set. BASICALLY, if you have a two-hander in one swapthing you can't put another two-hander in the second. Obviously, you'd have to get another item that's really good or the exact same weapon you already have, but I don't see that as much of a problemo really.

Because honestly if you can do this, every mage is just going to put a stalf in main & offset and have 10 skills essentially. . right? O.o

I also do note this could be used for PvE as well as PvP.

you realize you can probably not just switch back that fast? at least thats how it works in GW2.

Im fairly sure theyll handle it in a simmilar way.
If thats the case youll always have to rely on one part of those 10 skills so yeah. sounds like an awfull idea to me...

(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Pirhana7 Wrote: I don't see a problem with doing this, I think you would be better off with something different for a different situation. if your primary sword and shield you would probably want a ranged weapon swap like bow or staff. remember the abilities are not on cool downs, they use magika and stamina which u need to manage. 3 of the slots are your magic abilities which you could have on any lay ouch regardless of the weapons set you use. The other 2 slots are weapon abilities, so yah you could have 2 sword abilities on one bar and 2 more on the next but I really don't think it has an advanatage, I would think your at a disadvantage because you have the same weapon layout instead of something that could really help you in a different situation

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(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Ferroc Wrote: No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

I don't think it would be anywhere near an exploit, I think your gimping your self to have the same weapon on swap just to gain 2 different weapon utility skills when you could have a different weapon that would work a lot better for a different situation

Ha, didn't see this.. would've multi-quoted. /doh!

I don't think you quite grasp the power of having 12 or however many abilities all in something your character excels at. If I'm a fully focused warrior pwnage man & I make my secondary something along the lines that I'm focused in, all my moves will already be quite powerful. That is as long as I increase the skill of each move I use in both hotbars, but you do that with any off-hand weapon.

The way I see it, all those yellow-belly half warrior half priesty or half warrior half archer types can stick to their panzy ways of wavin' sticks & pullin' strings on sticks. I'll jus bash em a dozen different ways all the way to kingdom come. Besides, majority of the games I've ever played - being good at everything doesn't work against someone great at something. Especially with the fact that there'll be matching armor set bonuses apparently so no half medium half heavy armor nonsense. I would expect other bonuses when sticking to one and only one style of fighting which would probably outweigh being able to grant little heals to yer bum or the bums of yer allies.

Suuuure, some might argue I'll be stuck to melee & ranged can kill me, but nobody will be killing me up close. I'll be a monster ya have to run from or die, and that's the way I like it.

(March 31st 2013, 12:18 AM)Kilivin Wrote:

(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Pirhana7 Wrote: I don't see a problem with doing this, I think you would be better off with something different for a different situation. if your primary sword and shield you would probably want a ranged weapon swap like bow or staff. remember the abilities are not on cool downs, they use magika and stamina which u need to manage. 3 of the slots are your magic abilities which you could have on any lay ouch regardless of the weapons set you use. The other 2 slots are weapon abilities, so yah you could have 2 sword abilities on one bar and 2 more on the next but I really don't think it has an advanatage, I would think your at a disadvantage because you have the same weapon layout instead of something that could really help you in a different situation

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(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Ferroc Wrote: No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

I don't think it would be anywhere near an exploit, I think your gimping your self to have the same weapon on swap just to gain 2 different weapon utility skills when you could have a different weapon that would work a lot better for a different situation

Ha, didn't see this.. would've multi-quoted. /doh!

I don't think you quite grasp the power of having 12 or however many abilities all in something your character excels at. If I'm a fully focused warrior pwnage man & I make my secondary something along the lines that I'm focused in, all my moves will already be quite powerful. That is as long as I increase the skill of each move I use in both hotbars, but you do that with any off-hand weapon.

The way I see it, all those yellow-belly half warrior half priesty or half warrior half archer types can stick to their panzy ways of wavin' sticks & pullin' strings on sticks. I'll jus bash em a dozen different ways all the way to kingdom come. Besides, majority of the games I've ever played - being good at everything doesn't work against someone great at something. Especially with the fact that there'll be matching armor set bonuses apparently so no half medium half heavy armor nonsense. I would expect other bonuses when sticking to one and only one style of fighting which would probably outweigh being able to grant little heals to yer bum or the bums of yer allies.

Suuuure, some might argue I'll be stuck to melee & ranged can kill me, but nobody will be killing me up close. I'll be a monster ya have to run from or die, and that's the way I like it.

We understand how you think this could be good. And it makes sense: you don't hafta level up two sets of weapons so when u switch you know each load out may be just a strong as the other. What we are trying to say here is that you will lack versatility and therefore be less effective as a warrior. You may become awesome at close quarters combat, we won't dispute that. Least I won't. But what's the point of having 10-12 great close-range abilities when you get killed before you can get in range to use them? What we are saying is don't limit yourself. That's what this system is designed for. If a Mage starts shooting at you, he may take down half your health before u get in close, and be able to quickly finish you with his own secondary melee load out with could be just as strong as either of yours. This is just simple advice, play as you want. It could work for yah. But we are just giving our opinions :)

Why would you want to switch one handed weapon over a other one handed weapon since the abilities have no cool-down to start with..
Moreover the Mobs that you are fighting aren't stupid if they know your game-play (Close combat) they will focus you with range and slowing spells.

@Ferroc I see what you're saying, but just the fact that they have a chain-pull ability which apparently will have no cooldown I guess? In that case, I won't need to go to people & people won't be able to get away from me. All & All, I see a LOOOOOOOT of broken "OP" styles when AvA really kicks off. It's just that usually, most games with a warrior class has some method of closing distances like that chain pull. So, if say there are a bunch but I just can't fit them all in one weapon set, why not just make one weapon set for closing distances & the other for dealing the pain? We'll have to see what it turns out to be. I was just curious to know if I could make my second weapon set the same type of weapons that my first weapon set had, and even if you get that much of a difference in the skills you have.

Idk, when I saw the chain pull I thought maybe, just maybe, I'll get something similar to my amazing Death Knight. Which, if I recall correctly death knights were rediculously broken in PvP. . at least when I played they were, haha. In a way though, my plan is solid prior to release because they're bound to have many gap closing moves for warriors as to not make the game ranged based. It's a bit of a double edged sword really, if you have ways to close distances then you can easily make melee OP, but if you have very weak gap closers then you very quickly make ranged OP. Idk, perhaps I'm just worried they won't get this right. :S

@Ailmær That's a very good point. I honestly think that "no cooldown" thing is going to be severely abused when the game starts out. They'll probably end up making things like moves cost extra magicka or stamina if they're used over and over again. Idk, maybe I have an outsider opinion, but I see a looooot of things being abused pretty quickly in AvA. Which, honestly isn't the devs fault, it's just that it's difficult to foresee future ridiculous metas. Not to mention having to add in the fact that you can combo things up with allies. . *shiver* that'd be a nightmare to weigh in every variable, haha.

(March 31st 2013, 09:32 AM)Kilivin Wrote: @Ferroc I see what you're saying, but just the fact that they have a chain-pull ability which apparently will have no cooldown I guess? In that case, I won't need to go to people & people won't be able to get away from me. All & All, I see a LOOOOOOOT of broken "OP" styles when AvA really kicks off. It's just that usually, most games with a warrior class has some method of closing distances like that chain pull. So, if say there are a bunch but I just can't fit them all in one weapon set, why not just make one weapon set for closing distances & the other for dealing the pain? We'll have to see what it turns out to be. I was just curious to know if I could make my second weapon set the same type of weapons that my first weapon set had, and even if you get that much of a difference in the skills you have.

Idk, when I saw the chain pull I thought maybe, just maybe, I'll get something similar to my amazing Death Knight. Which, if I recall correctly death knights were rediculously broken in PvP. . at least when I played they were, haha. In a way though, my plan is solid prior to release because they're bound to have many gap closing moves for warriors as to not make the game ranged based. It's a bit of a double edged sword really, if you have ways to close distances then you can easily make melee OP, but if you have very weak gap closers then you very quickly make ranged OP. Idk, perhaps I'm just worried they won't get this right. :S

@Ailmær That's a very good point. I honestly think that "no cooldown" thing is going to be severely abused when the game starts out. They'll probably end up making things like moves cost extra magicka or stamina if they're used over and over again. Idk, maybe I have an outsider opinion, but I see a looooot of things being abused pretty quickly in AvA. Which, honestly isn't the devs fault, it's just that it's difficult to foresee future ridiculous metas. Not to mention having to add in the fact that you can combo things up with allies. . *shiver* that'd be a nightmare to weigh in every variable, haha.

It's not like it isn't balanced though. So your strategy would be pull everyone in close using that dragon chain ability or whatever it's called. That's gonna drain magicka/stamina quick. You won't have the resources to use that second hotbar once you close distance. So maybe if up you have high enough magic/stamina pool it could work, i don't know maybe have one hotbar which only uses stamina and one which is pure magic. But that just leaves u open to other attacks. If you do try it out and it works, haha let me know. Just be careful cause you might end up trading getting in close with survivability

(March 31st 2013, 12:18 AM)Kilivin Wrote:

(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Pirhana7 Wrote: I don't see a problem with doing this, I think you would be better off with something different for a different situation. if your primary sword and shield you would probably want a ranged weapon swap like bow or staff. remember the abilities are not on cool downs, they use magika and stamina which u need to manage. 3 of the slots are your magic abilities which you could have on any lay ouch regardless of the weapons set you use. The other 2 slots are weapon abilities, so yah you could have 2 sword abilities on one bar and 2 more on the next but I really don't think it has an advanatage, I would think your at a disadvantage because you have the same weapon layout instead of something that could really help you in a different situation

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(March 31st 2013, 12:03 AM)Ferroc Wrote: No in the last Ask Us Anything: Combat, they said your hot bar could be entirely different I believe. But I don't think what OP said is a problem. Like the post title, it's just a clever and I would say completely allowable exploit. Exploit might even be a strong word. If you wanna be constantly switching hot bars during a fight, it's your call. However, since the developers have been focusing on immersive and realistic combat, you might be missing out on crucial points in a fight while look at your hotbar to switch it. For example might miss a giant starting a swing of his club while u switch load outs.

I don't think it would be anywhere near an exploit, I think your gimping your self to have the same weapon on swap just to gain 2 different weapon utility skills when you could have a different weapon that would work a lot better for a different situation

Ha, didn't see this.. would've multi-quoted. /doh!

I don't think you quite grasp the power of having 12 or however many abilities all in something your character excels at. If I'm a fully focused warrior pwnage man & I make my secondary something along the lines that I'm focused in, all my moves will already be quite powerful. That is as long as I increase the skill of each move I use in both hotbars, but you do that with any off-hand weapon.

The way I see it, all those yellow-belly half warrior half priesty or half warrior half archer types can stick to their panzy ways of wavin' sticks & pullin' strings on sticks. I'll jus bash em a dozen different ways all the way to kingdom come. Besides, majority of the games I've ever played - being good at everything doesn't work against someone great at something. Especially with the fact that there'll be matching armor set bonuses apparently so no half medium half heavy armor nonsense. I would expect other bonuses when sticking to one and only one style of fighting which would probably outweigh being able to grant little heals to yer bum or the bums of yer allies.

Suuuure, some might argue I'll be stuck to melee & ranged can kill me, but nobody will be killing me up close. I'll be a monster ya have to run from or die, and that's the way I like it.

You wont be gaining 12 abilities to excel in.

Only the 1 and 2 slots r where you can put your weapon abilities, 3,4, and 5 have to come from other skill lines (non weapon)

I understand the point of wanting to be the master of 1 thing like up close sword and shield. I just want to make sure you know the ONLY thing you are gaining is 2 optional weapon hotbar skills by using the same weapon set twice. the other 3 skills have to come from the other skill trees like class , race, ect. so you could have those 3 different skills weather you use the same weapon or not. Also remember the hotbar skills are not primary damage abilities in this game, that comes from the mouse atatcks. the hot bar skills are more utility and situation based.

So I look at it this way, yah you could weild the same weapon twice and have 4 different hotbar utility skills for that weapon instead of 2. But to gain that tiny bit of utility power you sacrificing a lot more by not having that other situational weapon (ranged or heal). And the 2 weapon utility skills from those could be just as good.

And remember its not a cool down ability system in which case you would have 2 more abilities that used their own cool down, which would be 2 more bonus abilities to fire off. instead they share the same stamina the other abilities use so you wouldnt be able to do anymore damage just the option of two different utility effects.