Raids; era over. ZOS; evolution.

After reading everything I have over the last few days, its not ZOS that’s neglecting the community, its the community that’s neglecting ZOS.

Adventure zones/"heroic layer dungeons" can work as alternatives to raids. The info is there. Adventure zones work like some systems do in FFXI (new Dynamis, Voidwatch, Abyssea), however because X million people that played WoW and not FFXI, they don’t understand the concept. Salvage, Einherjar, Nyzul and old Dynamis would be the equivalent to raids. It is highly possible to run both systems in the game, easily, however it really is okay with just the 1 if done properly. People will still be grinding for gear. There is still strategy, working in groups, having good communication key and it is still fun. Its not like its easy mode (sorry casuals).

Any game, not just ESO, need to rise above what FFXI, WOW, EQ, etc. have ever done. Its how they re going to succeed.

ESO could have already outdone WoW and EQ in their own way with their “heroic layer dungeons” and adventure zones but yet we re still stuck on the raid bandwagon from 2005. Of course you can raise your concern, im just saying…..none of us even know what its about exactly or have tried it yet. And the majority doesn’t even want to try something new.

Have they neglected the PvE community entirely, um….noo. Only the ones who are expecting larger encounters. Yes, im sorry. You’re f**ked for now. You ll have to get your hardcore PVE fixes in 2-16 <also seen sources of 12?> man “heroic layer dungeons” AZs, and +/++ zones from release. Most people on the poll probably dont even know what they voted for or even understand what ZOS did in ESO. If its good, people will stay. Its something new that is better than what was on the table before, we will have a thriving community.

By blatantly going out and saying “there are no raids”, people aren’t even thinking that, “hey, maybe there is something equivalent?” OF course they ll be mad. But Ill put it to you like this:

ZOS: “Sorry guys we don’t specialize cake!”

Community “Ahh, this is an outrage. You re doomed?”

ZOS: “We specialize in ice cream.”

Of course both is better, but there isn’t both. Its an alterative. They re taking a chance at something fresh and new.

If it wasn't an Elder Scrolls game and just the next MMO, would people even care at all? What exactly is going to evolve the MMO community if no one wants to change it. ZOS is taking that chance.

So please quit with the continuous "We have no raids" topics. You re scaring a community who a) doesn't understand the alternatives and how they could already be better b) doesn't want to except change or see the MMO generation we have today evolve c) are the hardcore/casualcores waiting for something new.

Trying something new? Adventure zones = public dungeons and it is an error to talk about them like they are something new or different to MMOs. They also aren't raid-like even if they contain fights made for large groups. In the end such content can just be zerged and that won't appeal to raiders who want locked teams with no outside assistance. I'm not really a raider, but I understand what they are looking for and I have to tell you that adventure zones won't be it.

Personally, I'm happy with PvP and small group PvE centered games myself so no issues from me. I find small scale PvE is easier on developers to make challenging and meaningful fights. Because there won't be raiding this will likely be a pretty niche game though.

I just dont see Adventure Zones being anything close to an alternative to Raiding.

I will agree with decoy that they sound like zergfests.

(March 21st 2013, 10:05 AM)decoy Wrote: Trying something new? Adventure zones = public dungeons and it is an error to talk about them like they are something new or different to MMOs. They also aren't raid-like even if they contain fights made for large groups. In the end such content can just be zerged and that won't appeal to raiders who want locked teams with no outside assistance. I'm not really a raider, but I understand what they are looking for and I have to tell you that adventure zones won't be it.

Personally, I'm happy with PvP and small group PvE centered games myself so no issues from me. I find small scale PvE is easier on developers to make challenging and meaningful fights. Because there won't be raiding this will likely be a pretty niche game though.

Personally, Im happy with exact same thing, small group PvE and PVP. Its not driving me away at all. Its preference. I disagree with the niche like statement though. A niche statement because it isn't like WoW? Good RvR, a no rotation system, finesse system and the +/++ functions make it seem more than niche at the moment. If all is done right, this will be my last MMO.

But even though FFXI doesn't have what would be called your classic raid, more off set style, it still thriving and going strong for 10+ years now. The community is still there to support it. Due to mechanics and level increase, it has become a zerg fest just due to the fact that the balance is no longer there, and that's developer side. Its on developer side here to make ESO not a zerg fest also, and if everything is done properly (especially with the finesse system), it wont be.

What im finding is that a lot of people are implying is that with no "raids", there is no PVE endgame, which is a pretty failed concept. Now we have people across forums telling people, no raids = no endgame. If someone hasn't done their research, of course they ll believe this. And this is why im here. There may not be a raid like system, its an alternative. If some people don't like it, well, that's preference. To assume the game is going to be horrible just because their are no raids is a lack luster statement. Just because the endgame isn't there for them, doesn't mean it isn't there for everyone.

Regardless, don't knock it until you try it. And id rather wait until Pax to discuss anymore.

@decoy - you know they've talked about parallel instances of various zones if one area fills up, right? Given this information, the potential for the incredible AI they tout, it's not really fair to say that this will be 'zergable.' We don't know if it will be or not, or even if they are going to have adventure zones in the traditional sense.

This isn't a WoW, DAOC, etc; clone, so it's not really fair to take what *other* mmos have interpreted adventure zone to be and apply it to ESO just yet.