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Stealth Assassinations?


Started by Slypstream
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(January 31st 2013, 09:03 PM)Epicface Wrote:
(January 31st 2013, 08:55 PM)Velaskae Wrote: Ah, the gold old days of vanilla WoW, where ambushes would 1shot anyone not in plate.

But here, you should pay attention to your surroundings to survive. Hopefully sneak will be a transparent thing, so we can pick off people only if their not paying attention.
We need to pay attention to our surroundings? Work required to live?
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1 hit kill abilities, and from stealth even. Yeah Im gonna go with no on this one. The very notion off it throws pvp balance so far out off whack its not even funny.

Because here's what going to happen if they put it in, stealthed mass rogue assassination. Ops the other team is missing half their team. Well how about cooldowns(from what I recall they already said no cooldown on anything) or limited number off them at a given point, set up a rotation off hit squads, busines as usual. Ok then, what about making the assassination not kill the target outright. Problem is still the same, might need a few more people to ensure the targets gets offed as planned. Well nerf the rogues out off stealth combat damage, that'll show them right?. Then any non assassination rogue will end up gimped. And that's just a short list off issues with it. Any ability that can seriously chunk out a target's health will face the same problem.


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You obviously cannot sneak if you're in combat. A half stealth team is obviously going to do horribly, because they would lack defense in the masses and if they are caught, they are as good as dead. Since thieves are so squishy, there is no option for them BUT for sneak attacks, and apparently some people don't understand. There are going to be many "buts" for stealth, so it will probably not be OP. Cooldowns, there are none, which I could see as a problem too. I don't know how they are going to do it, but some features we just have to believe that Zenimax will do well on :)


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Maybe you're all just wrong about the stealth system....*gasp*


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(January 31st 2013, 09:20 PM)Epicface Wrote: You obviously cannot sneak if you're in combat. A half stealth team is obviously going to do horribly, because they would lack defense in the masses and if they are caught, they are as good as dead. Since thieves are so squishy, there is no option for them BUT for sneak attacks, and apparently some people don't understand. There are going to be many "buts" for stealth, so it will probably not be OP. Cooldowns, there are none, which I could see as a problem too. I don't know how they are going to do it, but some features we just have to believe that Zenimax will do well on :)

You have many points that I believe are very well thought out. Open combat is a no-no in most cases for stealth, and should be avoided. That is our Achilles Heel. Every class should have one. If not, THAT is your OP class. Therefore, if this is not included in the final game, then it will be stealth users that will be ridiculously underpowered. Then what happens?? Everyone flocks to the warrior or the mage. A game that is predictable with no versatility is absolutely no fun whatsoever.


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(January 31st 2013, 09:34 PM)wezl094 Wrote: Maybe you're all just wrong about the stealth system....*gasp*

I saw on the trailer that stealth is a lot like skyrim, and they even said it was. So did ShoddyCast, though I disagree with their idea of stealth costing stamina (even though medium armor is best for stamina, I find the fact that stealth costs stamina over time to be a weird idea, and pretty limiting).
Stealth is gonna be like skyrims stealth, basically XD.


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(February 1st 2013, 09:26 AM)Epicface Wrote: I saw on the trailer that stealth is a lot like skyrim, and they even said it was. So did ShoddyCast, though I disagree with their idea of stealth costing stamina (even though medium armor is best for stamina, I find the fact that stealth costs stamina over time to be a weird idea, and pretty limiting).
Stealth is gonna be like skyrims stealth, basically XD.

Well that's good news though! I feel like that's more playable than being semi transparent. Maybe when you're in stealth mode you will be able to see an enemies area of visibility, but then again that would make battle fields look like a huge clisterf**ck when your in stealth.


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(February 1st 2013, 09:42 AM)wezl094 Wrote:
(February 1st 2013, 09:26 AM)Epicface Wrote: I saw on the trailer that stealth is a lot like skyrim, and they even said it was. So did ShoddyCast, though I disagree with their idea of stealth costing stamina (even though medium armor is best for stamina, I find the fact that stealth costs stamina over time to be a weird idea, and pretty limiting).
Stealth is gonna be like skyrims stealth, basically XD.

Well that's good news though! I feel like that's more playable than being semi transparent. Maybe when you're in stealth mode you will be able to see an enemies area of visibility, but then again that would make battle fields look like a huge clisterf**ck when your in stealth.

I don't think they're adding that, it would be kinda OP, but hopefully they add little things like heavy armor makes it harder to sneak, but medium not so much, because most rogues are gonna use medium, not light. Or, like, how fast you moves effects it, stuff like that :D
And, killcams for NPCs sitting on chairs pls!


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Having stealth tied to Stamina is brilliant, imo. It forces players to think about when to stealth, instead of forgetting they even have an option to turn it off. It also forces them to be tactical and plan ambushes.

The real issue with stealth is that many stealth classes in MMOs lack competitive ability when they aren't sneaking. The key is to make effective stealth an extra feature, and not the foundational gameplay aspect for playing the class.

ZoS' decision makes this (lets assume Nightblade) an offensive class that can stealth well, instead of a stealth-based class. There's a big difference.


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Might be late with these definitions, but I couldn't let lie the argument between First Person Shooter (heh) or Role Playing Game:

Quote:Wikipedia Definitions
First-person shooters are a type of three-dimensional shooter game, featuring a first-person point of view with which the player sees the action through the eyes of the player character. They are unlike third-person shooters, in which the player can see (usually from behind) the character he is controlling. The primary design element is combat, mainly involving firearms

Single player role-playing video games form a loosely defined genre of computer and console games with origins in role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, on which they base much of their terminology, settings, and game mechanics. This translation changes the experience of the game, providing a visual representation of the world but emphasizing statistical character development over collaborative, interactive storytelling.

I don't see how TES games could be considered FPS's since you can see from third person & first person at your choice; not to mention that we don't have firearms in Tamriel which are the typical weapons of FPS's.

I don't understand why there is any question of stealth characters being in the game at all; especially since they have a big role as the Rogues in DAOC. In faction/guild based siege warfare everyone's role is important and one type of player being missing will throw off the whole process. Since dev's working on TESO had been previously associated with DAOC, I would look forward to seeing/being Rogue/Assassin types.


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(February 1st 2013, 10:09 AM)Reichmar12 Wrote: Having stealth tied to Stamina is brilliant, imo. It forces players to think about when to stealth, instead of forgetting they even have an option to turn it off. It also forces them to be tactical and plan ambushes.

The real issue with stealth is that many stealth classes in MMOs lack competitive ability when they aren't sneaking. The key is to make effective stealth an extra feature, and not the foundational gameplay aspect for playing the class.

ZoS' decision makes this (lets assume Nightblade) an offensive class that can stealth well, instead of a stealth-based class. There's a big difference.

I kinda dislike the idea that stealth costs stamina, but not so much that I can't meld into it, which I apparently will need to do. Crouching costs stamina now! Seems legit.
edit: But I see why it was done, so there is not stealth spams. But in PvE I like taking stealth slowly so I don't become found :/. Maybe movement speed doesn't effect detect-ability anymore? At least in PvE, to balance out this random change to the sneak system.
This post was last modified: February 1st 2013, 10:44 PM by Epicface


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I agree with Reichmar12, I got sick of unnecessary nerfs to rogues in WoW because 'omg stealth so imba, I can't see you' so I'd rather sneaking be limited in teso via stamina so that it becomes more about when to stealth to gain the bonus or whatever you get from attacking from stealth - like GW2, I like how they have handled stealth.


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Ive always said that stealth is only for weaklings and kids that dont like a challenge.
So i generaly think that tieng it to stamina is a good thing, it reudces the possibility of the classic wow-rogue gank.

The idea of beeing able to break out of stuns using stamina further solidifies the fact that you will in fact no longer be able to sneak up on someone, stunlock him and when he gets out of it instantly vanish before he kills you. Wich is what rogues are in 90% of all other MMORPGs.

i also like the notion that it might actually become a valid tool for PvP actions. I still stand by the notion that stelath should be impossible if you are in the vicinity of enemies. Or at least hampered.

By that i mean a rogue would actually have to watch his surroundings and movement of enemies, picking off those that stand apart from the crowd (simmilar to how it was in DAoC due to the fact that invis was revealed rather easily by some classes)

What i definitly do not want is that around 10 rogues can sneak in the middle of the enemy army and kill all the casters. Because that doesnt make any sense.
Tactics like this should be based on positioning rather than on hard codet mechanics. With an emphasis on skill rather than character build.
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(February 2nd 2013, 07:03 AM)Sordak Wrote: Ive always said that stealth is only for weaklings and kids that dont like a challenge.
So i generaly think that tieng it to stamina is a good thing, it reudces the possibility of the classic wow-rogue gank.

The idea of beeing able to break out of stuns using stamina further solidifies the fact that you will in fact no longer be able to sneak up on someone, stunlock him and when he gets out of it instantly vanish before he kills you. Wich is what rogues are in 90% of all other MMORPGs.

i also like the notion that it might actually become a valid tool for PvP actions. I still stand by the notion that stelath should be impossible if you are in the vicinity of enemies. Or at least hampered.

By that i mean a rogue would actually have to watch his surroundings and movement of enemies, picking off those that stand apart from the crowd (simmilar to how it was in DAoC due to the fact that invis was revealed rather easily by some classes)

What i definitly do not want is that around 10 rogues can sneak in the middle of the enemy army and kill all the casters. Because that doesnt make any sense.
Tactics like this should be based on positioning rather than on hard codet mechanics. With an emphasis on skill rather than character build.

A couple personal opinions on what I just read:
"...stealth is for weaklings and kids that don't like a challenge." Reality check. It's not like we're afraid to die. You act like we are actually SCARED. This is just some sentence that is non-justifiable. It seems to me you are just trying to add some odd sense of honor to yourself by demeaning others.
"The idea of beeing able to break out of stuns using stamina further solidifies the fact that you will in fact no longer be able to sneak up on someone, stunlock him and when he gets out of it instantly vanish before he kills you. Wich is what rogues are in 90% of all other MMORPGs." There are so many problems with that, it doesn't even make sense. The last sentence should have been a dependent clause of the sentence, though then you have a run-on. It has so many problems that I find it very difficult to understand what you meant.
" I still stand by the notion that stelath should be impossible if you are in the vicinity of enemies. Or at least hampered." What, in the vicinity of enemies?? If that was true, then there is quite literally, NO POINT in even including it in the game. No one says "OH LUK BUDIEZ! BETR SNEEK BI DEM!!"
"What i definitly do not want is that around 10 rogues can sneak in the middle of the enemy army and kill all the casters. Because that doesnt make any sense." First, it makes perfect sense. It's a tactic that can be used to hamper enemies. If they are so easily exposed, then what is the problem??
In my opinion, your argument is invalid.
This post was last modified: February 2nd 2013, 08:32 AM by Slypstream


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(January 31st 2013, 03:57 PM)Slypstream Wrote: Will stealth assassinations be possible? If so, are there any restrictions as to how this has to be carried out?

This is a long thread for a simple answer: No.

The DEVs have already stated that 1 shot or one button kills will not be in the game. This goes for mage nukes, ect, ect...as well.


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