The difference between MMO’s and single-player

OK, I’m slightly confused by this, so I thought I might just as well start a topic.

There seems to be a widespread impression that some things that work in single-player games don’t in MMO’s. True 1st person, for example. Why is that? I can see that there is a tactical advantage being able to see what is going on behind you, but that is equally true of single-player games, is it not?

What other things work in single-player but not in MMO’s (and vice versa)?

True first person works well in chivalry medieval warfare

(February 22nd 2013, 01:52 AM)Mqarr Wrote: OK, I’m slightly confused by this, so I thought I might just as well start a topic.

There seems to be a widespread impression that some things that work in single-player games don’t in MMO’s. True 1st person, for example. Why is that? I can see that there is a tactical advantage being able to see what is going on behind you, but that is equally true of single-player games, is it not?

What other things work in single-player but not in MMO’s (and vice versa)?

The difference is that in Single-player games, it doesn't really matter if you didn't see that Draugr sneaking behind you. Since all you need to do is wait for few seconds to reload your latest save. In MMORPG you don't play casually for the sake of fun to the same extent, but play in more of an competitive environment.

The another thing is scaling of difficulty and overall difficulty. In single-player RPG's, the game typically starts as more difficult and as you progress, it either gets harder or easier. Where as MMORPG's typically start as a lot easier and get harder as you progress. The other difference is that in the end-game, in SRPG's your character will be capable of matching anything and everything. Where as in MMORPG's you can bet that in the endgame content there are NPC's you are incapable of handling solo.

The list goes on.

(February 22nd 2013, 02:10 AM)grimmjow Wrote: True first person works well in chivalry medieval warfare

That's not the same. You may as well be calling CoD and Battlefield MMOs.

(February 22nd 2013, 02:23 AM)Nehemia Wrote:

(February 22nd 2013, 01:52 AM)Mqarr Wrote: OK, I’m slightly confused by this, so I thought I might just as well start a topic.

There seems to be a widespread impression that some things that work in single-player games don’t in MMO’s. True 1st person, for example. Why is that? I can see that there is a tactical advantage being able to see what is going on behind you, but that is equally true of single-player games, is it not?

What other things work in single-player but not in MMO’s (and vice versa)?

The difference is that in Single-player games, it doesn't really matter if you didn't see that Draugr sneaking behind you. Since all you need to do is wait for few seconds to reload your latest save. In MMORPG you don't play casually for the sake of fun to the same extent, but play in more of an competitive environment.

I don’t see how that makes a very profound difference. In your typical MMO you just have to wait for a few seconds and then reappear at the latest spawn point.

I agree, though, that a bird’s view perspective is more useful when you are in a battle involving a large number of enemies at the same time. At those times MMO’s are closer to strategy games than to RPG’s.

Quote:The another thing is scaling of difficulty and overall difficulty. In single-player RPG's, the game typically starts as more difficult and as you progress, it either gets harder or easier. Where as MMORPG's typically start as a lot easier and get harder as you progress. The other difference is that in the end-game, in SRPG's your character will be capable of matching anything and everything. Where as in MMORPG's you can bet that in the endgame content there are NPC's you are incapable of handling solo.

Yes, that is certainly a significant difference, which has to do with the very nature of MMO’s.

Quote:The list goes on.

I should hope so. But I would like to hear more thoughts on why some things aren’t supposed to work in MMO’s. What would for instance be the problems with turning Skyrim into MMO as it is? (One thing occurs to me directly: waiting, and of course any other actions that alter the speed of the game.)

In my opinion the developers just don't want to or their engine doesn't support 1st-person. Sadly there aren't any other excuses and I hope for the game that it is the latter. But to name an example. Just look at Darkfall and now Darkfall: Unholy Wars. They integrated true 1st- and 3rd-person in a hardcore PvP-MMO(besides all the other bugs these games have). And even IF(and that's a big if) you are at a disadvantage in 1st-person, I as the player should be able to decide what I prefer. In the end I can only come to the conclusion that the engine is the problem or the work effort.


What won't work in an MMO is the completely free exploration because of the level destrictions and probably the permanent death of NPCs in the world (even so it would be funny if you kill a merchant and on the next day a new guy with a new name appears).
More obvious things like "Resting" or "Sleeping" to pass a day is quite clear why they can't work.
I can't also imagine full loot of NPCs because that would make getting gear too easy for an MMO. On the other hand I personally don't know how item-focused the game will be but I can't imagine an MMO without a little bit item progression and epic loot and such stuff.

normal single player game...you set dificulty, you quickly learn what difficulty you can survive in and play in 1st person view, Itn works cause you dont even feel the first hit or 2, so you get the chance to scroll out into 3rd person view to survey the situation.

MMO / multi player....your walking down the same track and you get ambushed by 5 archers and a fire mage who are 50 levels above you or some bad ass mob, and you do not get the chance to scroll out to 3rd person view because you are already dead.

in game 1st person view is not the same as IRL 1st person view....there is a set field of view that is alot more respective than real life.
...............and then you die.

MMO's don't normally accept mod in the game (as they can be game-breaking) whereas Single players games (most) embrace mods, as it adds a extra challenge

I`d say that, in Skyrim and other TES games, you can freely go into 1st person because enemies usually appear "in front of" you (except those sudden draugr ambushes like when you go to take the pieces of Wuuthrad and such). You know, when you enter some some nordic ruin you see a draugr, kill him and move on, then there`s another one, kill him too, and 50 feet later there`s another one, kill him too and so on. While in MMOs, enemies can spawn in 360 degrees radius around you so you have to be much more aware of your surroundings and 3rd person is the obvious thing to go with. Before, I also used to demand the 1st person view and was very disapponited when I found out we won`t have the real 1st person view... but it is the logic thing to do, since you`d have to switch to 3rd person view each time you enter a fight. Now now I`m pretty much satisfied with the way it is.

(February 22nd 2013, 01:52 AM)Mqarr Wrote: Why is that? I can see that there is a tactical advantage being able to see what is going on behind you, but that is equally true of single-player games, is it not?

These are some new things you will have to contend with in an MMO, things that don't really happen in single player games like past TES titles.

1. Respawns. They can appear suddenly at seemingly random times. Getting your field of view as wide as possible helps.
2. PvP. Players will purposefully come at you from a side you can't see as well from. In today's technology, AI still doesn't sneak up on players like this.
3. AoE effects. Commonly ground effecting hazards that you don't really see in 1st person mode as you cannot see your feet. There is a common saying in MMOs "don't stand in the fire." It isn't as common for ground effects to be placed under the player in single-player games, but they are common in MMOs because they force player awareness and have the ability to take out groups, which Bosses need to do if they have a shot at winning and keeping teams on their toes. We know next to nothing about boss battles, but it is a very solid bet you will be dodging ground effects.

For the above, points 2 and 3, I actually see little wrong with being in 1st person in a low-risk PvE zone, but if you are going out to Cyrodiil, I cry for you... unless we are on a different alliance. The 1st person crowd will get the rep for being easy marks in PvP. In larger group battles in PvP as well as PvE your team is depending on your to stay alive so you fulfill your role, so being in 1st person view can also be seen as selfish to your team.

I've played games with both, and 1st is great for solo games, but I needed 3rd for MMO's. The only downside to 3rd I can see, is that melee stealth kills, which are a big factor in TES games will me nearly impossible against players in the MMO since they can see you approching in third person mode.

(February 24th 2013, 12:09 AM)Manarax Wrote: I've played games with both, and 1st is great for solo games, but I needed 3rd for MMO's. The only downside to 3rd I can see, is that melee stealth kills, which are a big factor in TES games will me nearly impossible against players in the MMO since they can see you approching in third person mode.

It's over the shoulder 3rd person, not WoW 3rd person. People can still sneak up on you.

Well that was the only downside I could see so that fixes that.

(February 24th 2013, 12:16 AM)Knightmare Wrote:

(February 24th 2013, 12:09 AM)Manarax Wrote: I've played games with both, and 1st is great for solo games, but I needed 3rd for MMO's. The only downside to 3rd I can see, is that melee stealth kills, which are a big factor in TES games will me nearly impossible against players in the MMO since they can see you approching in third person mode.

It's over the shoulder 3rd person, not WoW 3rd person. People can still sneak up on you.

This whole excuse that 1st person is a disadvantage isn't really a good one. If there is a disadvantage(depends on the third person mostly) than why can the player not be allowed to play with the disadvantage nonetheless. They just don't want to bother with it, and that's really all there is to it. I personally don't care much about it, as I can play in both just fine and usually switch around if possible.

(February 24th 2013, 12:16 AM)Knightmare Wrote: It's over the shoulder 3rd person, not WoW 3rd person. People can still sneak up on you.

Well we learned this because of questions on the camera placement, nobody has told us that there is an inability to pan in and out with the camera. Would be a first in MMO history, I doubt the camera is locked in place behind you.