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The Dwemer?


Started by Kilivin
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So, in regards to the Developer Question of the week. . what happened to the Dwemer? I know that a lot of people might have a greater grasp of what happened, here's what I have found.

The Dwemer were trying to escape time, or rather go back before time was created. They did this by finding the Heart of Lorkhan and making tools from its powers, known as the Tools of Kagrenac. When they used these tools, they disappeared. . which most things say instead of "died" or "committed mass suicide." If there is one thing I recall from Morrowind, everyone has different opinions, and not all beliefs have to be true.

Now, Lorkhan is highly connected to the creation of the Daedra, and when I say highly. . he basically caused the Daedra to come into being by fooling the Et-ada. I believe it was those that followed him became the Aedra, and those who didn't became Daedra? Something like that. That all being said, you'd think those who tamper with such devices that tap into such a power might cause some kind of. . daedric manifestation/casting into Oblivion?

Which leads to my theory. My thought, is that in using these devices, the dwemer turned into the very Daedra that you fight in Oblivion. Not the Daedric lords, but the minions themselves. That somehow tapping into that power corrupted them and changed them in the realm of Oblivion.

Now, obviously there is a back-story as to how these Daedra came into being. However, from all accounts that I have read, the explanation of how there are Daedra or Dremora rather, is all a religious belief that the creationists of Tamriel have. Meaning. . they might be wrong? Again, the Lore makes sure to keep some things uncertain exactly, which is why I thought it quite interesting that the only explanation as to the existence of Daedra is a religious belief. . or myth so to speak.

The only thing I'm not entirely certain about with this theory is if there were ever battles that happened that involved Daedra(dremora I should say) before the disappearance of the Dwemer, which was around 1E 700 if my memory is correct.

As to WHY they did this. . I am not sure. It could have been a mistake. Perhaps Dagoth Ur did it to thinking he could get the tools and heart himself? I have heard someone saying in Morrowind there is a dwarf that supposedly tells you what happened to them. . but if he does tell you. . I honestly wouldn't believe a dwemer that got left behind by its own kind.

Any other ideas please leave a comment! Thanks! =)
This post was last modified: February 8th 2013, 10:22 AM by Kilivin
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I think there is good evidence found here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content...-trebonius
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Some great lore! I'd like to think the Dwemer succeeded, and will someday come back.
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I did not know this. Thank you. It does allow for them to reappear, but unfortunately because ESO will be before Skyrim which makes no mention of their return then we are unlikely to see them there, but ES VI maybe?
In terms of Daedra, I could be wrong, but if they were dwarves morphed then I would expect them to have some resemblance to what we envision Dwemer to look like, but well thought out.


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Interesting theory, but as stated in the link provided by lugnut, and I believe later confirmed by Michael Kirkbride (the man behind most of the more intricate Elder Scrolls Lore), the Dwemer actually became the skin of the Numidium. In doing so, they formed the Brass God and Brass Tower, essentially achieving their goal of apotheosis (although not on an individual level, not that this would be a 'failure' to them likely considering their supposedly collective-mind)


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(February 10th 2013, 04:55 AM)Robbio Wrote: Interesting theory, but as stated in the link provided by lugnut, and I believe later confirmed by Michael Kirkbride (the man behind most of the more intricate Elder Scrolls Lore), the Dwemer actually became the skin of the Numidium. In doing so, they formed the Brass God and Brass Tower, essentially achieving their goal of apotheosis (although not on an individual level, not that this would be a 'failure' to them likely considering their supposedly collective-mind)

Yah, I couldn't find the link which lugnut so kindly provided. Definitely gives me a bit of a new outlook on it all. I just had a theory of what I COULD find haha. =P
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The Dwemer dug to deep. Dwarves always dig to deep.


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Kilivin had some nice thoughts, but the truth is already known. ZOS just either doesn't know or doesn't care, because the Dwemer mistery is popular enough to be milked.

All creation is subgradient. AE created Anu and Padomay, so those are on the first subgrade. Mortals, like the Dwemer, are very subgradient. The Dwemer hated that and tried to transcend and becoem their own creation and thus not subgradient.

In fact, this is the very goal with which in mind the Elder Scrolls universe was built. Everything is a dream of the godhead (AE), and only by transcending the dream you can break free and become a dreamer youself (this state is called Amaranth). Lorkhan saw this wa spossible, so he forced/tricked/convinced the et'Ada to create a mortal world, on which mortals could transcend. Some et'Ada refused to take part in Creation, they became the Daedra and cannot create, only change what already exists. The other et'Ada helped to create the world, but they soon found out that they would have to bind themselves to it. Some fled, led by Magnus, punching holes in the Void as they entered the savety of Aetherius. These holes are the stars, through which magicka now streams down on Nirn. The other et'Ada sacrificed themselves for Creation. They became Earthbones (laws of nature), Ehlnofey (the ancestors of mer and men) and various other things.

Back to the Dwemer. They build Numidum, a giant Space-Time-Robot, powered by the Heart of Lorkhan. Their plan was to become its golden skin and transcend through time and space. When their plan was set in motion, all Dwemer on Nirn were bound to Numidium.

The only real mistery is wether the Dwemer succeeded or not. In the latter case, they would have uncreated themselves, literally vanishing from existence.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Now, obviously there is a back-story as to how these Daedra came into being. However, from all accounts that I have read, the explanation of how there are Daedra or Dremora rather, is all a religious belief that the creationists of Tamriel have.

It isn't a belief. The Elder Scrolls universe is nothing like the real world, what I described above literally is fact, not a religious belief. Of course, the various cultures of Tamriel have very different points of view on creation.

Also, Dremora are a species of Daedra, they are not the same.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: I have heard someone saying in Morrowind there is a dwarf that supposedly tells you what happened to them. . but if he does tell you. . I honestly wouldn't believe a dwemer that got left behind by its own kind.

Yagrum Bagarn wasn't on Nirn when it happened, but in the Outer Realms. When he came bakc, he found all his brethren gone.
This post was last modified: February 12th 2013, 02:58 AM by Rial


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id argue about wether or not the dwemer did not want to be a subgradient and break out of the system or try to be a higher level of subgradient.
Simmilar to what the Thalmor want to achieve.

The annimunculi theory suggests this.
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(February 12th 2013, 03:17 AM)Sordak Wrote: id argue about wether or not the dwemer did not want to be a subgradient and break out of the system or try to be a higher level of subgradient.

Well, it is a theory.

And I had it well in mind, since I played the quest in Morrowidn just yesterday. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Three...Demnevanni

Edit: Relevant dialog http://i.imgur.com/jGtBIf0.jpg
This post was last modified: February 12th 2013, 09:04 AM by Rial


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does it really matter where they have gone. they have left good metals behind which you can use to create strong armour and weapons. Also you can find nice weapons in those ruins. Also that they have not being seen for a long time so what more do you need to know?
Asking were the dwemmer did go is like asking why beer taste so good without tasting it. just get your ass in those ruins and get some free stuff is what I say.


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(February 12th 2013, 02:53 AM)Rial Wrote: Kilivin had some nice thoughts, but the truth is already known. ZOS just either doesn't know or doesn't care, because the Dwemer mistery is popular enough to be milked.

All creation is subgradient. AE created Anu and Padomay, so those are on the first subgrade. Mortals, like the Dwemer, are very subgradient. The Dwemer hated that and tried to transcend and becoem their own creation and thus not subgradient.

In fact, this is the very goal with which in mind the Elder Scrolls universe was built. Everything is a dream of the godhead (AE), and only by transcending the dream you can break free and become a dreamer youself (this state is called Amaranth). Lorkhan saw this wa spossible, so he forced/tricked/convinced the et'Ada to create a mortal world, on which mortals could transcend. Some et'Ada refused to take part in Creation, they became the Daedra and cannot create, only change what already exists. The other et'Ada helped to create the world, but they soon found out that they would have to bind themselves to it. Some fled, led by Magnus, punching holes in the Void as they entered the savety of Aetherius. These holes are the stars, through which magicka now streams down on Nirn. The other et'Ada sacrificed themselves for Creation. They became Earthbones (laws of nature), Ehlnofey (the ancestors of mer and men) and various other things.

Back to the Dwemer. They build Numidum, a giant Space-Time-Robot, powered by the Heart of Lorkhan. Their plan was to become its golden skin and transcend through time and space. When their plan was set in motion, all Dwemer on Nirn were bound to Numidium.

The only real mistery is wether the Dwemer succeeded or not. In the latter case, they would have uncreated themselves, literally vanishing from existence.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Now, obviously there is a back-story as to how these Daedra came into being. However, from all accounts that I have read, the explanation of how there are Daedra or Dremora rather, is all a religious belief that the creationists of Tamriel have.

It isn't a belief. The Elder Scrolls universe is nothing like the real world, what I described above literally is fact, not a religious belief. Of course, the various cultures of Tamriel have very different points of view on creation.

Also, Dremora are a species of Daedra, they are not the same.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: I have heard someone saying in Morrowind there is a dwarf that supposedly tells you what happened to them. . but if he does tell you. . I honestly wouldn't believe a dwemer that got left behind by its own kind.

Yagrum Bagarn wasn't on Nirn when it happened, but in the Outer Realms. When he came bakc, he found all his brethren gone.

Very interesting stuff. As far as I'm concerned though, does it ever say anywhere whether or not the Dwemer succeeded? If something does say so, how can one take that as truth because nobody but one person actually repeated what the Dwemer did. . and that person also disappeared.

I think the whole concern of what happened to the Dwemer in the world of Tamriel is that they made an entire RACE disappear. Imagine if, no racism here, all Asians made a device that made all of them disappear? We'd end up calling it some sort of doomsday device and totally freak out that it could happen to all of us.

Which, to my knowledge, the Dwemer weren't the most benevolent of people to the others in Tamriel and if they were to succeed. . why wouldn't they repeat the process that they did upon themselves onto others and just undo creation itself?

I honestly think they did fail in their attempts, meaning if we were to ever see them in any game it would be through some sort of vision of the past. . I heard there will be some sort of time travel thing in TESO? I could have my games mixed up here, but perhaps there will be an instance where you go back to the moment the Dwemer disappear. . could be quite the experience and give good insight perhaps on what happened exactly? =P
This post was last modified: February 12th 2013, 01:03 PM by Kilivin
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The Dwemer are still alive they're just pale elves that live in caves or wherever they live...
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(February 12th 2013, 01:01 PM)Kilivin Wrote:
(February 12th 2013, 02:53 AM)Rial Wrote: Kilivin had some nice thoughts, but the truth is already known. ZOS just either doesn't know or doesn't care, because the Dwemer mistery is popular enough to be milked.

All creation is subgradient. AE created Anu and Padomay, so those are on the first subgrade. Mortals, like the Dwemer, are very subgradient. The Dwemer hated that and tried to transcend and becoem their own creation and thus not subgradient.

In fact, this is the very goal with which in mind the Elder Scrolls universe was built. Everything is a dream of the godhead (AE), and only by transcending the dream you can break free and become a dreamer youself (this state is called Amaranth). Lorkhan saw this wa spossible, so he forced/tricked/convinced the et'Ada to create a mortal world, on which mortals could transcend. Some et'Ada refused to take part in Creation, they became the Daedra and cannot create, only change what already exists. The other et'Ada helped to create the world, but they soon found out that they would have to bind themselves to it. Some fled, led by Magnus, punching holes in the Void as they entered the savety of Aetherius. These holes are the stars, through which magicka now streams down on Nirn. The other et'Ada sacrificed themselves for Creation. They became Earthbones (laws of nature), Ehlnofey (the ancestors of mer and men) and various other things.

Back to the Dwemer. They build Numidum, a giant Space-Time-Robot, powered by the Heart of Lorkhan. Their plan was to become its golden skin and transcend through time and space. When their plan was set in motion, all Dwemer on Nirn were bound to Numidium.

The only real mistery is wether the Dwemer succeeded or not. In the latter case, they would have uncreated themselves, literally vanishing from existence.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: Now, obviously there is a back-story as to how these Daedra came into being. However, from all accounts that I have read, the explanation of how there are Daedra or Dremora rather, is all a religious belief that the creationists of Tamriel have.

It isn't a belief. The Elder Scrolls universe is nothing like the real world, what I described above literally is fact, not a religious belief. Of course, the various cultures of Tamriel have very different points of view on creation.

Also, Dremora are a species of Daedra, they are not the same.

(February 8th 2013, 10:19 AM)Kilivin Wrote: I have heard someone saying in Morrowind there is a dwarf that supposedly tells you what happened to them. . but if he does tell you. . I honestly wouldn't believe a dwemer that got left behind by its own kind.

Yagrum Bagarn wasn't on Nirn when it happened, but in the Outer Realms. When he came bakc, he found all his brethren gone.

Very interesting stuff. As far as I'm concerned though, does it ever say anywhere whether or not the Dwemer succeeded? If something does say so, how can one take that as truth because nobody but one person actually repeated what the Dwemer did. . and that person also disappeared.

I think the whole concern of what happened to the Dwemer in the world of Tamriel is that they made an entire RACE disappear. Imagine if, no racism here, all Asians made a device that made all of them disappear? We'd end up calling it some sort of doomsday device and totally freak out that it could happen to all of us.

Which, to my knowledge, the Dwemer weren't the most benevolent of people to the others in Tamriel and if they were to succeed. . why wouldn't they repeat the process that they did upon themselves onto others and just undo creation itself?

I honestly think they did fail in their attempts, meaning if we were to ever see them in any game it would be through some sort of vision of the past. . I heard there will be some sort of time travel thing in TESO? I could have my games mixed up here, but perhaps there will be an instance where you go back to the moment the Dwemer disappear. . could be quite the experience and give good insight perhaps on what happened exactly? =P

they most likeley failed.
The egg of time was basically saying "all your calculations are wrong, idiot"
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@Sunset you mean the Falmer?


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