The hard-styled game

So, some of you might have heard of or even played games like Demon/Dark souls. A lot of people will say these kind of games are the "hardcore" or just difficult games to win at. Perhaps I'm just good at games (no brag intended) but I always felt majority of games (specifically RPGs) aren't that hard to play. In the end there's never really a challenge in anything I've played. . it just becomes either point & click (shooters), or it becomes spam my mouse button until the thing dies. As long as I'm not an idiot with stats and skills in RPGs then I will always succeed at it. Also, it's hard to be an idiot in those things when you have games like Two worlds 2 where you can make a spell that does a tons of damage and ricochets among enemies.

I'm sure some might disagree, but personally I found Oblivion & Skyrim to be incredibly easy games. I even played these games with the difficulty max, but all that does is increase the time it takes to kill things, which increases how much your skills go up. So, in the end, it's still not that hard. The perk system in Skyrim made it even simpler to win at the game so by the time I was mid lvl 20s, I had the ability to knock down enemies with my shield then kill them on the ground. Some may object to Skyrim or Oblivion in that the games aren't intended to be hard once you're lvl 30-40, but lvl 20?

I know there will be the implementation of "AI" in the creatures in this game, but I honestly don't see any difficulty in pressing buttons in a specific order and spamming my mouse button. This seems like it's just going to be like WoW again where all you have to do is press 1 over and over until you get to lvl 4 or something, then you press 1 then 2.

I also don't see the idea of exponential growth of items as a good thing in any game. I like the DnD perspective. Going from +1 sword to a +2 sword still feels like you got an awesome upgrade, but in perspective it's not THAT major. However, when I have this 5% per mob that I'm going to get a weapon that will make the next 5 levels of killing monsters INCREDIBLY easy then boo. That's ridiculous to have such a curve of power on items.


If anybody says PvP will be difficult, don't, this is a PvE only perspective. Although, it could be argued with PvP if anybody gets better gear the longer they PvP, then you'll get the CoD syndrome. Those who play longer kill more merely because they get better items through the length they've been in the game. Ergo, it turns all new players off of PvP because majority of people playing from the start all have great PvP gear and are gonna kill 3 times more then they die. Not to mention those who have the great gear have no challenge, and those who don't have the gear it's damn near impossible to kill them. However, Idk if people will get better gear or not. . maybe someone else can clear this part up?

Games such as demon souls at least adds a whole array of dodging attacks, or shooters add having to be a good aim, or even games like UT2004 required you to have a good aim AND be quick moving. All & all, I've found many games that have their own way to make a game challenging. However, I don't see the challenge in just pressing left click to attack & a couple of buttons on my keyboard to cast spells. Not to mention the stupidity of the difficulty being dependent on if I have good or bad gear or not. <-(I'd rather my guy be doing the awesome stuff not my equipment doing the work for me is basically what I'm saying by that.)

To the point of it all, ~I hate easy games.~ They bore easily. In any game it should be difficult for ALL people to kill other people or monsters, but easy to make an impact if done correctly. Be it having to be strategic or having to be quick on your feet, idc, as long as it isn't just pressing 1-6 and left click a hundred times.

Topic Question:
What ways do you think, besides the already implemented mob AI, could be implemented in the game to make for a more challenging experience for players?

I think the finese will be able to compensate for some of the easiness. The fact that we have to read off our opponents cues (what that character's arm does when he's doing a powerful but slow attack) and act accordingly will definitely separate the WoW players from the skilled players. I totally agree with you though. Games aren't challenging enough these days. I haven't played demon souls so I can't add any discussion to that.

The game will definitely not be as hard as dark souls and it shouldn't be. I think the way the combat is done, having to time your blocks/dodges/attacks and the team work that will be involved will make it so it isn't as easy as spamming attack. The combat system itself will keep you engaged and not get bored of the game. If you blame the gear for making a game too easy, then don't get the good gear. Use some shitty equipment so you have a challenge. A good game that will most likely be similar to the ESO combat is Tera, if you got free time I would recommend checking it out.

You didn't play Morrowind?

Morrowind was a damn pain in the beginning to be honest. I loved it, but I died so much. I will admit skyrim and oblivion can be made easy with certain builds so I do hope this game is a bit harder especially since its group based. Personally to make it harder the AI will be one way it could be made harder if the AI works together at least to some degree. Other than that hopefully just avoid making the game less gear centric considering most of the TES games really are not unless you include artifacts and special items, weapons, or armor which in that case those are powerful mainly cause you have to earn them.

From what i've read the combat system is meant to resemble Tera more than any other MMO. I found Tera's combat to be very good and fighting BAMS(elite type mobs) in PVE to be a very rewarding and skillful experience. You might want to download the Tera to get an idea of what the previewers who played the game last year meant by the Tera comparison.

(February 27th 2013, 07:16 PM)Tabbycat Wrote: You didn't play Morrowind?

Yah, I've played Morrowind. I kept that out of what games I found easy though. I specifically said Oblivion & Skyrim, Morrowind was indeed more difficult. Nothing like demon souls at all. . but still difficult. ;)

(February 28th 2013, 01:45 AM)Moves-Behind-The-Shadows Wrote: From what i've read the combat system is meant to resemble Tera more than any other MMO. I found Tera's combat to be very good and fighting BAMS(elite type mobs) in PVE to be a very rewarding and skillful experience. You might want to download the Tera to get an idea of what the previewers who played the game last year meant by the Tera comparison.

Yes, I will definitely try Tera out. Probably after I finish some of my other tons of games in the steam library. o.o

(February 27th 2013, 03:06 PM)Durios Wrote: I think the finese will be able to compensate for some of the easiness. The fact that we have to read off our opponents cues (what that character's arm does when he's doing a powerful but slow attack) and act accordingly will definitely separate the WoW players from the skilled players. I totally agree with you though. Games aren't challenging enough these days. I haven't played demon souls so I can't add any discussion to that.

You should really play Demon Souls at least to see if you like it. Just remember though when you play it, dying isn't the end of the world, but the beginning of an additive to the game. Honestly, I'd suggest Demon souls over Dark souls merely over the fact that majority of reviewers also say that of the two, the first was better. How true that is I have no idea as I haven't picked up Dark souls over fear of breaking my controller in rage. xD

Games have become much easier within the last 20 years. I would say its because gaming has become so mainstream. Being an excessive gamer used to make you a nerd and an outcast, and now its the "cool" thing to do. More people will buy games that make them feel powerful as oppose to a game like the original Contra that punished you for being anything less than awesome.

(February 28th 2013, 09:54 AM)esham13 Wrote: Games have become much easier within the last 20 years. I would say its because gaming has become so mainstream. Being an excessive gamer used to make you a nerd and an outcast, and now its the "cool" thing to do. More people will buy games that make them feel powerful as oppose to a game like the original Contra that punished you for being anything less than awesome.

That is the truth and you have gained all of me respect. I've been looking for why I don't find games fun anymore and this hits it right on the spot. However they make so much more money on the casual players so games will not change most likely, the sad truth.

The difficulty in my opinion should be normal, so as to appeal to every kind of gamers and so as not to get frustrating.
It could be more challenging by being more demanding though and that's something I believe it's pretty important.

We live in the age of self entitlement. people have now grown to believe they deserve anything they like. Which is untrue its a false belief that has taken the gaming industry by storm catering to the casual market has dumbed down games. Im sure the minds of game creators all over the world know that technology nowadays can instigate the most difficult of games yet, somewhere in their minds they think catering for the players that are top of the chart game hoppers, will create a great game. well its wrong when they realise that difficulty and challenge is the most appealling thing about games we will see a groind breaking until then the industry is on a downward spiral of shit games.

Vanilla WoW used to be hard, I actually died a lot! now I think you actually get an achievement if you die while leveling from 1 to 90 (Jumping of a cliff does not count BTW :P )

(March 1st 2013, 08:51 AM)Swanky Wrote: Vanilla WoW used to be hard, I actually died a lot! now I think you actually get an achievement if you die while leveling from 1 to 90 (Jumping of a cliff does not count BTW :P )

lol yah seriously. Not to mention rogues in WoW. O_O
There again. . I actually miss playing my dad's lvl 60 rogue assassinating low levels for no reason. MUWAHAHAHA

Before I make my point - Yes Morrowind = harder. (But not if you buy your training, played on max difficulty level 40 in a few hours, and knowing where the level 100 trainers are and the best weapons are.)

I think the best system they could implement would be to have more difficult 'servers' similar to how WoW works with its raid making BS.
I dunno, needs to be some way for being to say 'I beat the hardest boss' and get some sort of recognition for doing something difficult.

The problem with games being made is easy is because those who aren't capable of thinking at a level that can allow them to progress in certain situations, so difficulty comes in with timing and knowing where to put your 'skill points' which can just be googled..
The game needs to apply a level of logical difficulty. Like in Skyrim, there were puzzles, not hard ones. but still..

I hate easy PvE. Don't get me wrong, most of the time PvE is ridiculously easy, but there's easy (do what you're supposed to and win) and then there's idiot easy (fail at what you are meant to do and win.) I don't want idiot easy, it makes me quit games. If me or my group make a mistake in a PvE encounter we should fail, not get rewarded.