The Second Great War

Not quite sure this is in the right category but...

The second great war is coming. Everyone knows it. The only thing delaying it is the fact that neither side is strong enough. In this thread I was hoping to create a discussion on what will happen. Take into consideration whether the Stormcloaks have won or not. Make a case for either alternative as it could have an effect.

(December 23rd 2012, 06:26 AM)Iogairn Wrote: Not quite sure this is in the right category but...

The second great war is coming. Everyone knows it. The only thing delaying it is the fact that neither side is strong enough. In this thread I was hoping to create a discussion on what will happen. Take into consideration whether the Stormcloaks have won or not. Make a case for either alternative as it could have an effect.

I'll join the Stormcloaks,and kill those Thalmor!

*sigh* I meant strategy, diplomacy, tactics. What will the Argonians do? Will the Crowns and Forbears set aside their differences to fight Thalmor? High Rock could probably be invaded by Orsimer or Nords. Bosmer rebellions. Blades being rebuilt and replacing the stupid Penitus Oculatus. That sort of thing.

(December 23rd 2012, 06:42 AM)Iogairn Wrote: *sigh* I meant strategy, diplomacy, tactics. What will the Argonians do? Will the Crowns and Forbears set aside their differences to fight Thalmor? High Rock could probably be invaded by Orsimer or Nords. Bosmer rebellions. Blades being rebuilt and replacing the stupid Penitus Oculatus. That sort of thing.

There will be a Redguard rebellion,I'm sure of that.

First off, the Stormcloaks lose the rebellion. The combined forces of western Skyrim plus the Legion put down the rebellion and the Empire consolidates its efforts around rebuilding its ranks. Following the events of TESV, the Blades arise again and take their place behind the Emperor. This time, they are fully aware of the dangers the Thalmor pose and take their revenge on Thalmor inquisitors and intelligence operatives (they will, everyone can agree on that).

With Skyrim under control and now able to focus on contributing to the Imperial efforts at rebuilding and arming, the bulk of the work now lies in the other provinces. With respect to Hammerfell I belive that, despite the public perception of the Empire's abandonment of Hammerfell, there are imperial agents working with the Redguard nobility behind the scenes to keep relations active and ironed out. This will likely necessitate more Imperial leniency towards allowing local customs in return for Redguard trust. Furthermore, it can be asserted that the Redguards really hate the Thalmor, and vice-versa. The Dominion will likely attempt to seize control of Hammerfell to keep Imperial supplies from moving south from High Rock and Skyrim to Redguard resistance forces. The Empire will likely march into Hammerfell to fight "alongside" the rebelling noble houses against the Thalmor. We know from (The Redguard Woman) that the resistence is alive and well in Hammerfell. When war is declared, Hammerfell will erupt in conflict. Redguard v Thalmor, Imperial v Thalmor, Redguard+Imperial v Thalmor.

The Dunmer are in an interesting position. Many fled Vvardenfell following the eruption of Red Mountain, as well as from southern Morrowind following the Argonian incursion. I believe that they will return to Morrowind as a motivated and pissed off people. They will also have new friends in Skyrim, as the new Jarl of Windhelm is friendly to Dark Elves and vowed to elevate relations between both races. Indeed, Brunwulf Free-Winter might play quite a pivotal role in forging an alliance between Dunmer and Nord -- he likes the Dunmer, and the Dunmer view him as a war-hero. Combining his reputation with his leadership as Jarl puts him as a pivotal figure in political relations between the two peoples. Will he serve as an ambassador? Allied commander? The High-Queen's intermediary? What position will the Nords take on the Argonian incursion?

I forsee the Dunmer rebuilding ravaged parts of Morrowind and reestablishing deep trade ties with Skyrim. I think they'll put a heavy emphasis on repopulating the lands too -- perhaps a baby boomer generation of Dunmer. As a result, the Empire will undoubtedly seek to take advantage of this opportunity by offering generous assistance to the Dunmer in return for their cooperation in the war. The Dunmer, who in their push for rebuilding their society also reinvigorated efforts directed at reviving old cultural practices and beliefs (such as ancestor necromancy), will demand that the Empire respect their right to practice their ancient rites. The Empire will agree, needing all the help they can get.

Argonians and Bretons when I have more time to write.

And what if the Stormcloaks win. They did when I played Skyrim.

Also, the Empire would risk making an enemy out of the Argonians if they supported the Dunmer re-invasion. Declaring war on two Empires isn't advisable.
While Hammerfell is sure to be fighting the Thalmor, would they want to do it with Imperial help? The Empire showed its weakness when it abandoned Hammerfell. While some Redguard houses would support the Empire. I suspect not enough for a majority. Also, the civil war in Hammerfell is still going on. If one side supports the Imperials the other will stay well away.

But this was what I wanted. Thanks

(December 23rd 2012, 12:20 PM)Iogairn Wrote: And what if the Stormcloaks win. They did when I played Skyrim.

Also, the Empire would risk making an enemy out of the Argonians if they supported the Dunmer re-invasion. Declaring war on two Empires isn't advisable.
While Hammerfell is sure to be fighting the Thalmor, would they want to do it with Imperial help? The Empire showed its weakness when it abandoned Hammerfell. While some Redguard houses would support the Empire. I suspect not enough for a majority. Also, the civil war in Hammerfell is still going on. If one side supports the Imperials the other will stay well away.

But this was what I wanted. Thanks

If the Stormcloaks win...... read the other thread. I wrote about it there. :-)

But its definitely a challenge for the Empire dealing with the Dunmer. They need the help, but they don't need an enemy in the Argonians. I personally think the Empire will concede on Dunmer ritual practices, concede on the same level or autonomy that Tiber Septim gave them, but will stay far from the Argonian debate.

I also think that the Dunmer would not push for reconquest any time soon. They have enough to worry about with the Thalmor and reconstruction (both physical and social). They'll rebuild Morrowind, rebuild civil society, restore great houses, fight the Dominion, etc. Only much later, after the war, do I see any Dunmer attempt at territorial expansion.

re: Hammerfell

Titus Mede II had no choice but to release Hammerfell as a province. He had no armies, no means to defend the province, no pathway for aid to be delivered. That's why I think that when the decision was made, Imperial agents were dispatched to coddle the nobles. Even in the presence of the civil war, I honestly cannot see those noble houses hostile to the Empire siding with the Thalmor. They are going to be facing the other houses + Imperial support on one side, and the Thalmor on the other. They'll be forced to fall in line.

The alternative would be the Empire hostile houses isolate themselves from both sides of the war. In doing so, the dominion would attack in force, and the Empire need only stand on the sidelines and wait until the right moment to "extend" a hand.

The role of the Argonians would be an interesting one.

If the Dunmer wish to rebuild Morrowind they'd have to take it back from the Argonians.

Didn't see the other thread... My bad

(December 23rd 2012, 02:06 PM)Iogairn Wrote: If the Dunmer wish to rebuild Morrowind they'd have to take it back from the Argonians.

Didn't see the other thread... My bad

No worries on the thread.

The Dunmer certainly have their work cut out for them. All they got is Solstheim from what I understand. We know that the Argonians swooped in after the Ministry crashed into Vvardenfell and the volcano erupted. They opened a portal and basically beamed people behind enemy lines and slaughtered. Every. Single. Person. Even Argonians.

It'll probably be a generation or two of repopulating the island and building an army before they're capable of taking back land.

But I honestly think that the Argonians are at a point where they'd scoff at both the Empire and the Thalmor. As a result of the Thalmor being partially resistant to disease, I'll be willing to bet that they will prefer to fight the Argonians over the Redguards. I don't believe that the Thalmor would be comfortable with a neutral faction to their East that could be coddled to by the Imperials. Since Morrowind is pretty f-ed up uninhabitable, the Dominion would need to only worry about subduing Black Marsh (I know that's a task in and of itself, but the Thalmor could do it. Hell, with their battlemages, they'd just burn down the trees).

The Thalmor could fortify their holdings in southern Hammerfell, Northern Valenwood and Cat Country while pushing East. I think they could incite more strife in Hammerfell, keeping the province occupied(as well as screwing the Imperials seeking to get it back). They would only need to really focus on holding the line in Elsweyr during their eastern campaign.

I think that that moment would be crucial for the Dunmer. They could take advantage of a deadly conflict in Black Marsh and take back parts of Morrowind -- maybe even most of it if they had Imperial help. If the Empire can break through Elsweyr, they'd cut off supplies flowing to the eastern Dominion front. The Argonian-Dominion conflict could then be influenced by offering Imperial help to the Argonians in return for their assimilation into the Empire once more.

The war would then be heavily in the Empire's favor.

Dont forget Blacklight as one of the main Dunmer holdings.
And I also hope for a Dunmer strike back at some point.
It is of my thinking that in those times of crisis, time for great leaders is to emerge.
Perhaps a new hortator? I dont know but I dont loose the hope. Not everything is lost yet.

(December 23rd 2012, 10:53 PM)Fhynrood Wrote: Dont forget Blacklight as one of the main Dunmer holdings.
And I also hope for a Dunmer strike back at some point.
It is of my thinking that in those times of crisis, time for great leaders is to emerge.
Perhaps a new hortator? I dont know but I dont loose the hope. Not everything is lost yet.

Perhaps the Nerevarine will return from the Akaviri continent or maybe a new Nerevarine shall rise,and lead his people to their destiny.

When the empire tried the give away part of Hammerfell the the dominion we left the empire and fought of the Altmer invasion becoming the first nation to fight off the Thalmor successfully. We have grown in strength since then we could do it again.

(December 24th 2012, 09:47 AM)Nazur the Scorpion King Wrote: When the empire tried the give away part of Hammerfell the the dominion we left the empire and fought of the Altmer invasion becoming the first nation to fight off the Thalmor successfully. We have grown in strength since then we could do it again.

Indeed, the Redguards have proven their martial skills. Infighting and civil war plagues the province now, however. Some noble houses favor the Empire, others favor no one and wish to be left alone.

The Thalmor would likely stir up the civil war to keep the province occupied and advance elsewhere first. My thought was north through Elsweyr and east through Black Marsh.

(December 24th 2012, 04:54 AM)Ulfgar the Fearless Wrote:

(December 23rd 2012, 10:53 PM)Fhynrood Wrote: Dont forget Blacklight as one of the main Dunmer holdings.
And I also hope for a Dunmer strike back at some point.
It is of my thinking that in those times of crisis, time for great leaders is to emerge.
Perhaps a new hortator? I dont know but I dont loose the hope. Not everything is lost yet.

Perhaps the Nerevarine will return from the Akaviri continent or maybe a new Nerevarine shall rise,and lead his people to their destiny.

Maybe. But I dont think a new Nerevarine will rise, because the prophecy was about the return of Nerevar to destroy the link of the heart, thus defeat Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal.
But as we know, if he was not killed in Akavir, he is inmortal for age or sickness. So he can make a come back, and lead the Dunmer to a new age.

(December 24th 2012, 11:17 AM)Fhynrood Wrote:

(December 24th 2012, 04:54 AM)Ulfgar the Fearless Wrote:

(December 23rd 2012, 10:53 PM)Fhynrood Wrote: Dont forget Blacklight as one of the main Dunmer holdings.
And I also hope for a Dunmer strike back at some point.
It is of my thinking that in those times of crisis, time for great leaders is to emerge.
Perhaps a new hortator? I dont know but I dont loose the hope. Not everything is lost yet.

Perhaps the Nerevarine will return from the Akaviri continent or maybe a new Nerevarine shall rise,and lead his people to their destiny.

Maybe. But I dont think a new Nerevarine will rise, because the prophecy was about the return of Nerevar to destroy the link of the heart, thus defeat Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal.
But as we know, if he was not killed in Akavir, he is inmortal for age or sickness. So he can make a come back, and lead the Dunmer to a new age.

One can only hope!