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Tiber Septim a Breton?


Started by Arener
Post #122220
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Recently I've been seeing speculation floating around that Tiber Septim might have been a Breton or even a Breton-Nord cross breed. Any lore experts wanna put in their two cents on the situation?


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Death cometh soon or late.
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alien138
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I'm no lore expert, but all of the books I've read on him point to him being a Nord. I've never once heard anything about Breton ancestry.


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Post #122223
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I'm not a lore expert.
But Tiber septim also known as Talos, mastered the ancient Nordic thum'um a feat only (to my knowledge) achievable by Nords, who themselves were gifted with said powers from the Aedra Kynearith.


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Post #122228
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Yes this is true, but some sources, the most prominent being The Arcturian Heresy, claim that Talos was born in the province of Alcaire along the High Rock-Skyrim border. In the quest "The Ghost of Old Hroldan" the ghost refers to Hjalti, Talos' birth name, and states that they were "the sword masters of Alcaire" further implying that Talos was a native of High Rock. His parents very well may have been Nords, but then why would the Jarls of Skyrim take him under their wing? He must have had some sort of nobility, and as he was born in Alcaire he must have had at least one Breton parent of noble heritage


"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
— The Lays of Ancient Rome
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Post #122229
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Nope. Not even remotely. He wasn't even technically a Nord. He was an Atmoran, one of the last of them. He fled Atmora and came here. He is only related to the Bretons in terms of them once being Nedes, but aside from that, there is nothing linking them.


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"The last invasion - if that is the word for two ships, largely laden with corpses, begging to make port - occurred in the 68th year of the First Era... Expeditions to Atmora in modern times describe a place of permanent winter, with little life and no sign of human habitation. Whatever population did not succeed in fleeing to Tamriel doubtless succumbed to the ever-worsening climate many centuries ago."
-Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition


"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
— The Lays of Ancient Rome
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Post #122237
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Most likely he did it Vivec:

Vekh, Ayem and Seth betrayed Nerevar and murdered him, to use the tools of Kagrenac and acquire Godhood and become Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil. However, they loved Nerevar and with their godly power they made it possible for Nerevar to return to them as Nerevarine (though, he would never be the same). However Vivec was later 'raped' by Molag Bal, who filled his head with nonsense. This was the moment Vekh and Vekh zero-summed (realizing that the world is just the dream of the Godhead, therefor realizing that he does not exist). Then there were two possibilities:

Firstly: Pure zero summing (I exist = 1, I´m a figure in a dream, therefor exist not = -1, 1-1=0), so he would just stop existing.

Secondly: CHIM. He realized that he was a figure in a dream, but had enough reason to stay a part of the dream (for he loved Nerevar and others so ******* much), so that he became a 'lucid dreamer', someone who can control the dream. He rewrote his past and made the story of the 36 lessons of Vivec become true. Yet, he was not able to entirely change the entire past.

That´s why everything is true, as stated in the 'Trial of Vivec':

Vekh the mortal did murder the Hortator, Vekh the god did not. They are two different beings, save for one red moment.






Same goes for Talos:

The Arcturian Heresy, written by Wulfharth himself, who is like Talos an Avatar of Lorkhan, states the original origin of Tiber Semptim: He came from this small Isle in High Rock, became a general for Cuhlecain and backstabidally murdered him for power. But as he so ******* loved his red legion (HEIMSKR!!!: And as man you said, "You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you." Aye, love! Love! Even as man, great Talos cherished us.) he acquired CHIM (royality in old Ehlnofex) as he zero-summed.

He changed his past, became Talos of Atmora, and not him, but a Breton Spellsword murdered Cuhlecain and nearly cut his throat.

SO, both is true.
This post was last modified: December 7th 2013, 12:05 PM by Idriar


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

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Post #122240
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O___o... TES is so confusing... So... he was originally a Breton, or at least a native of High Rock, and he used Chim to turn himself into an Atmoran?
This post was last modified: December 7th 2013, 12:10 PM by Arener


"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
— The Lays of Ancient Rome
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Post #122243
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The answer to the topics question is: No.

In the world of Tamriel crossbreeds between the ten races do not excist. Talos is not a Nordic name. Though Tiber Septim - like @Iogairn said - wasn't even a Nord. He was a Nede or Atmoran. But the original Nedes are now known as Nords. The only distinction between Nord or Nede for Talos was that he was born in Atmora, which kinda makes him a Nede - but in a way he's basically a Nord.


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Post #122248
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(December 7th 2013, 12:08 PM)Arener Wrote: O___o... TES is so confusing... So... he was originally a Breton, or at least a native of High Rock, and he used Chim to turn himself into an Atmoran?

That´s true. For beginner's it´s confusing.

And yes, Wulfharth states following:

Before Cuhlecain can be crowned, Hjalti secretly murders him and his loyalist contingent. These assassinations are blamed on the enemies of Cuhlecain, which, for political reasons, are still the Western Reach.

The propaganda is the first Pocketguide on Cyrodiil:

There, the Witchman assassinated the Emperor, caught the Palace on fire, and slit the throat of General Talos.

However, Talos was indeed wounded and silenced, for his throat was cut. He used to wield the voice, but would whisper from that moment only.

EDIT:

And yes, to the Cross breed thing:

If your mother is a Nord, you are a Nord. If your mother is a Breton, you are a Breton. The father does not matter. That´s how cross breeding in Tamriel works.
This post was last modified: December 7th 2013, 12:24 PM by Idriar


Who controls the Septim crown?
Who keeps the Allesian Heresy down?
We do, we do

Who knocked Yokuda off the maps?
Who keeps the Dwemer under wraps?
We do, we do

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Post #122249
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When I say "cross-breed" I only mean he had one parent from one race and another parent from a different race, not a whole new race in itself. Also, it's probably impossible for Talos to be a "true" Atmoran because at the time he was born Atmora was just an inhospitable wasteland that couldn't support human life

I understand that the wound to his throat would have kept him from using the Thu'um, but how does that effect his heritage?
This post was last modified: December 7th 2013, 12:39 PM by Arener


"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
— The Lays of Ancient Rome
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Post #122266
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I saw this and were going to reply... But Idriar basically summed it up... :P
This post was last modified: December 7th 2013, 01:52 PM by Archmage Alator


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Post #122269
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I'm still a bit confused as to how the assassin and the attempted murder of Talos plays into the whole Chim situation


"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods."
— The Lays of Ancient Rome
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Post #122304
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Talos, was not, and isn't a Breton. 99.50% sure of that.


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Post #122319
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Tiber Septim was Nord, Breton and Atmoran at the same time.

(December 7th 2013, 03:01 PM)alien138 Wrote: Talos, was not, and isn't a Breton. 99.50% sure of that.

I would love to see your source for such bold claim.
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