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Coward or cunning?
Coward
28.57%
6 28.57%
Cunning
71.43%
15 71.43%
Total 21 vote(s) 100%
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Titus medes: coward or cunning?


Started by shaun
Post #129292
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I'm quite sure you differ in opinion of Titus signing the treaty. I can see how devastating a prolonged war with the Aldmeri dominion could be, and when you assassinate him during the dark brotherhood quests he seems brave, wise or at least has accepted of his fate and that seems to have contradicted quite a few negative opinions about the treaty and the emperor. I thought it would be interesting to collect data on the matter
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Isilmo
Post #129295
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I think that this is a very interesting issue but I doubt there is a clear answer and it will remain inconclusive especially that such opinions are more moral concepts rather than set values.

One could argue that Titus Mede II was a coward, unexperienced and weak, and this is the way many Nords including Ulfric Stormcloak (And his 'enthusiastic' friend Galmar Stone-Fist) believe him to be as they see that if the Emperor would have continued the war after the Battle of the Red Ring the combined, remaining forces of the Empire plus Hammerfell and Skyrim reinforcements could have completely changed the tides of the war and fight the Aldmeri Dominion back to the Valenwood border and that signing the White-Gold Concordat, which was essentially the same demands that came with the Thalmor Ultimatum that started the war but now sealed with the blood of the thousands that died, was foolish, stupid and cowardly.

However Titus Mede II may have been seeing a bigger picture or possibly an even smaller one (not necessarily a bad thing, even in government) and thinking of the lives of his people and doing anything to save the men, women and children of his Empire by deciding to pay the price of peace however costly or temporary. Maybe he being a human didn't understand the true goals of the Aldmeri Dominion and thought they'd be satisfied and there could be peace as he didn't fully understand the new mentality of the Thalmor government. If that was the case then it would be Hammerfell, being foolish to fight on over land which ended up completely devastated in the end anyway and the Stormcloak Nords for being religiously fanatical and racist and choosing a devastating war against mostly their own people to prove it.

Either way I view Titus Mede II in a very positive light and when completing the DB questline every time I've done it, I've listened to his little speech and given him a quick, respectful and honourable death as one does to a worthy, fallen enemy... The first time I actually shed a tear for him, which is quite something for an Avid Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion supporter such as myself.

So from me... To Titus Mede II, Last Emperor of Tamriel!


Mer Over Man
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Epicface
Post #129300
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Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight
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Post #129301
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That's a bit chauvinist...


Mer Over Man
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Post #129319
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(December 27th 2013, 06:55 PM)FFDP Wrote: Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight

You do realize that he only signed the concordant AFTER he lost the Great War right? The Thalmor gave him the concordant when he took the throne but he's all like "Get that shizz out my face," fought the Great War... with a severely weakened empire... and lost... hard. But, he had the cojones to fight the Thalmor when the odds were way stacked against him, so I wouldn't call him cowardly at all. I wouldn't really call him cunning either though as he got stomped pretty good, and trying to fight an organized army with a crumbling empire might not be the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

I think if I were to describe Titus in one word it word be "unfortunate."


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Post #129332
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(December 27th 2013, 08:20 PM)DoRakk Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 06:55 PM)FFDP Wrote: Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight

You do realize that he only signed the concordant AFTER he lost the Great War right? The Thalmor gave him the concordant when he took the throne but he's all like "Get that shizz out my face," fought the Great War... with a severely weakened empire... and lost... hard. But, he had the cojones to fight the Thalmor when the odds were way stacked against him, so I wouldn't call him cowardly at all. I wouldn't really call him cunning either though as he got stomped pretty good, and trying to fight an organized army with a crumbling empire might not be the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

I think if I were to describe Titus in one word it word be "unfortunate."

I was just joking bro you dont have to take it that seriously
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Post #129333
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(December 27th 2013, 09:26 PM)FFDP Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 08:20 PM)DoRakk Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 06:55 PM)FFDP Wrote: Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight

You do realize that he only signed the concordant AFTER he lost the Great War right? The Thalmor gave him the concordant when he took the throne but he's all like "Get that shizz out my face," fought the Great War... with a severely weakened empire... and lost... hard. But, he had the cojones to fight the Thalmor when the odds were way stacked against him, so I wouldn't call him cowardly at all. I wouldn't really call him cunning either though as he got stomped pretty good, and trying to fight an organized army with a crumbling empire might not be the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

I think if I were to describe Titus in one word it word be "unfortunate."

I was just joking bro you dont have to take it that seriously

Huh? I was just asking if you knew that or not, maybe i should have separated the question to you from my answer to OP. Re-reading I can see that it wasn't super clear
This post was last modified: December 27th 2013, 09:30 PM by Do'Rakk


Master Pie-Man
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Post #129334
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(December 27th 2013, 09:28 PM)DoRakk Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 09:26 PM)FFDP Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 08:20 PM)DoRakk Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 06:55 PM)FFDP Wrote: Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight

You do realize that he only signed the concordant AFTER he lost the Great War right? The Thalmor gave him the concordant when he took the throne but he's all like "Get that shizz out my face," fought the Great War... with a severely weakened empire... and lost... hard. But, he had the cojones to fight the Thalmor when the odds were way stacked against him, so I wouldn't call him cowardly at all. I wouldn't really call him cunning either though as he got stomped pretty good, and trying to fight an organized army with a crumbling empire might not be the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

I think if I were to describe Titus in one word it word be "unfortunate."

I was just joking bro you dont have to take it that seriously

Huh? I was just asking if you knew that or not
Nope I did not
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Post #129337
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I believe titus mede , is what we call a hipster , Dies trying to embrace his fate in an artistic way but lives life in fear of clearly superior races.
A coward he is just like all other men
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Isilmo
Post #129344
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He had not much choice. It was either to continue fight with decimated legions and land on the verge famine, or to sign a treaty and rebuild the Empire as fast as possible for the 'round two' with the Aldmeri Dominion. In my opinion, his decision to sign a White-Gold Concordat was wiser than Redguards' to keep fighting. Yes, they have won and drove the Thalmor from Hammerfell, but the prolonged war left south in even worse condition that the Cyrodiil was. If AD made their move now and start another war, Hammerfel would be hardly able to resist for long.

Titus Mede is no Tiber Septim, he had no stompy robot to wreak havoc on his enemies. However, the fact is, only a strong and unified Empire can defeat the Thalmor, and the fact they support Ulfric and his rebellion is proof they realise it too.
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Post #129352
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(December 28th 2013, 03:55 AM)The Rogue Knight Wrote: Titus Mede is no Tiber Septim, he had no stompy robot to wreak havoc on his enemies. However, the fact is, only a strong and unified Empire can defeat the Thalmor, and the fact they support Ulfric and his rebellion is proof they realise it too.

That's hardly proof. The Thalmor are happy with Ulfric's rebellion because it weakens their foes with no actions on their part necessary. But it does not logically follow they really believe that a unified empire is the only way they'd loose the next great war. If that were the case, they wouldn't give it time to recover (ironically, with Mede dead after the DB quest, it seems unlikely that will happen).

I don't think there is any suggestion of cunning at all, he's between a rock and hard place, both decisions are equally as bad. What I don't understand is why he signed the treaty without consulting the Jarls. Its that which really pissed them off, even Balgruuf who ends up supporting the Empire. If he'd handled it better then the civil war might have been avoided. But he acted like an idiot, didn't consult them, didn't acknowledge that he should have, made no conciliatory gestures toward them (that we know of) and generally acted as if they were whipped dogs. And that, as we all know, makes for a lot of angry Nords.




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Post #129353
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He was just a man who was dealt a bad hand in the game of life. He didn't have many options and all of them would have left a majority of people either dead or deeply unhappy. He did what he felt was right to save the most lives, and I respect him for that.

As for calling someone a coward, it's hard to slap that title on a decorated war vetaran and a man who apparently impressed Boethiah enough to wield the Goldbrand as his personal weapon. The fact that he fought on the front lines and risked his own life to defeat the Dominion in Cyrodiil makes him a soldier, a man who fought for what he believed in. I think he at least deserves the respect you'd give any other soldier.
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Post #129364
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(December 27th 2013, 08:20 PM)DoRakk Wrote:
(December 27th 2013, 06:55 PM)FFDP Wrote: Hes a coward he doesnt even try to fight you and real men fight

You do realize that he only signed the concordant AFTER he lost the Great War right? The Thalmor gave him the concordant when he took the throne but he's all like "Get that shizz out my face," fought the Great War... with a severely weakened empire... and lost... hard. But, he had the cojones to fight the Thalmor when the odds were way stacked against him, so I wouldn't call him cowardly at all. I wouldn't really call him cunning either though as he got stomped pretty good, and trying to fight an organized army with a crumbling empire might not be the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

I think if I were to describe Titus in one word it word be "unfortunate."

Yeah, he gave up his capital to be able to smash the Dominion forces as he did in the later part of the Great war during the battle of the Red Ring.


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Post #129388
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Speaking of Goldbrand, does anyone actually know how he acquired that weapon?. There must be a theory or a small piece of evidence that Titus actually GAINED it, and it wasn't just under imperial lockdown.
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Post #129755
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I believe he is not a coward. I think he made a grave mistake signing that treaty, but he thought it was the right thing to do at that time. The Aldmeri Dominion wanted to take parts of Hammerfell and outlaw the worship of Talos to divide the empire, and when Titus Mede II signed the White-Gold Concordat, Hammerfell has separated itself from the empire, and Skyrim resorted to a civil war. The Aldmeri Dominion has succeeded in dividing the empire into little bits, so it would be easier for them to conquer.
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