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Understanding the High Elves


Started by Octagonapus97
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I found this a while back. It goes into the lore of the Altmer and explains their beliefs, customs, etc. It seems accurate, and it cites sources. The only thing I really call into question is the author's use of King Edward as a source; I've read most of it, and it seems fictional and inaccurate.

http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/group/lore...e-old-ways

I don't expect you to like or agree with Altmeri views, but I hope this will at least help you understand where we're coming from.


By arrow. By blade.
By tooth. By claw.
By shock. By frost. By flame.
The Aldmeri Dominion will dominate Tamriel.
Our enemies will fall until the Throne is ours.

Ulwe Wrote:Oh my gosh I love shish-kabretons!
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It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That has been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

And the thing about that the Altmer kill most of their infants due to impurity, lets not forget that... you get the Point yourselves, you cant really call a race good instead of evil if they do such things... Though the Altmer probably doesnt see it the way as we do...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this makes me annoyed... " Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here. Though even if Tiber Septims attempts to conquer the Dominion were stopped, he cant say that Tiber Septim had "he had given upall hope of defeating the Dominion", even if the Dominion seemed too powerful for him in an outright conquest, he could still have won without the Numidium with good tactics. And he said that they were at Peace when Tiber used the Numidium, but they were already at war when he used it.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt done over a night. Since No-one conquers even one province in one night. Not even with a huge golem. In a few Days they might had surrendered, but not within a night.


And he has made a good attempt trying to defend the Thalmor, but if they would get to rule they would make a good society for the Elves, and make the humans slaves. Like they made in High Rock when the Bretons were created, and like the Ayleid did, and the Dark Elves have done.... Everyone who doesnt Think like them gets executed. They torture people just because that they suspect that they Believe in Talos. And the White Gold Concordorat were not fair, atleast not in the Eyes of men, since only the Elves gained on it.

And about that he says that Tiber Septim becoming a god... well he says it from an Altmeri view, so I cant argue about that :P

But Tiber Septim were just evil in the Eyes of the Altmer and maybe some other elves, he were loved by the humans.

Then he also talks about its the players fault that the Thalmor can send assasins after the player.... I agree with him there its the players choice, but we cant forget that sometimes when we speak with them they attack the player since they Believe that the player is worshipping Talos. Or they have captured someone and are taking him to be tortured, wich I personally dont allow :P

Then he talks about that the thing about the Thalmor wanting to destroy the World is probably since we have not Heard about it and the developer Michael Kirkbrides post about it isnt correct, well it is probably a very very very very secret thing that they are trying to do, so they might just trying to keep it silent, or else every race would attack them lol so while we cant be 100% sure, you shouldnt trust him that its false either, since he dont have any proof. Even though he is speaking with a good logic. So until a developer says if it is right or not we can probably trust that he is telling the truth.

That was all I wanted to say about this. It was a very good article and I enjoyed Reading it, even though I thought some things could be discussed, and some thing was not exactly right. Even if this article tried to show the Altmer from their best sides and show us how they Think.

And I know that this were from the Altmer Point of view but I still wanted to say this :P
This post was last modified: August 3rd 2013, 08:51 AM by Archmage Alator


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Both Mer and Men have common ancestry of the Ehlnofey, but Mer still have ancestry of gods like Auri-El. The Wandering Ehlnofey just went off and bred among themselves. And it only says that the Men think they were directly created. It doesn't say that's what happened.

And stop treating the unmaking of Mundus like it's an objectively bad thing. It's not.

As I said, I don't expect anyone to agree with us, I just want people to understand us.

BTW, did you read the other parts or just the first part?
This post was last modified: August 1st 2013, 04:02 AM by Octagonapus97


By arrow. By blade.
By tooth. By claw.
By shock. By frost. By flame.
The Aldmeri Dominion will dominate Tamriel.
Our enemies will fall until the Throne is ours.

Ulwe Wrote:Oh my gosh I love shish-kabretons!
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Since they have the same kinds of ancestors if the Elves are "spirits of the gods" the humans are aswell. The Ehlnofey are decended from gods, then the Ehlnofey split up in two Groups, so they still are as much gods as the other kind of Ehlnofey. And men have ancestry with gods like Lorkhan and the gods of the early humans.

And the unmaking of Mundus is a bad thing for the most except you :P

I have not read Everything but soon have.

And if this were in the minds of the Altmer I wouldnt have complained, but it is written like lore-facts, established ones, and some are incorrect. Thats why I reacted on it.
This post was last modified: August 1st 2013, 04:22 AM by Archmage Alator


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Great find, certainly a good collection of lore well presented. Just as a sidenote, at the very beginning of the article its noted that this is essentially a defense of the Altmer, it is clearly presented from their point of view. Objectivity or even attempted objectivity is not a feature of in-game TES books, why should it be a feature of discussions thereby related? Even in RL historical practice genuine objectivity is considered unattainable.

But that aside, it was a good read on a race I didn't know much about before, so thanks again.
This post was last modified: August 1st 2013, 04:56 AM by Thorfinn




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Of course it's a defense. The author is basically being an Altmer apologist.


By arrow. By blade.
By tooth. By claw.
By shock. By frost. By flame.
The Aldmeri Dominion will dominate Tamriel.
Our enemies will fall until the Throne is ours.

Ulwe Wrote:Oh my gosh I love shish-kabretons!
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"Understanding the High Elves" ... yes and Nazis had some really good ideas, if you look at it from there point of view.
Hahahah sry as i read this tittle that was the first thin that poped into my head XD, i found it really funny, even though i guess this makes me a horrible persona >_<
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(August 1st 2013, 02:05 AM)Archmage Alator Wrote: It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his/her source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That as been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this angers me so much " Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt doe over a night.

I sometimes think I know a pretty good amount of lore...but then I read comments like this. *Sigh* Ah well.^^ Your criticisms are very interesting though, and I'm pretty interested to see his response, care if I pass them along to him?
This post was last modified: August 2nd 2013, 06:13 PM by Matt120
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(August 2nd 2013, 06:11 PM)Matt120 Wrote:
(August 1st 2013, 02:05 AM)Archmage Alator Wrote: It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his/her source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That as been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this makes me annoyed... " Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt done over a night.

I sometimes think I know a pretty good amount of lore...but then I read comments like this. *Sigh* Ah well.^^ Your criticisms are very interesting though, and I'm pretty interested to see his response, care if I pass them along to him?

If he wants to discuss this its up to him to sign up here, because I will not sign up there. If you show it to him tell him that if he wants to argue about something he can PM me about it. Or we can just take it here. But if you want to you can pass them along to him.

But I have not read Everything, I might find more thing that can be discussed or are wrong... so you could wait with it or share it now.
This post was last modified: August 3rd 2013, 02:16 AM by Archmage Alator


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(August 2nd 2013, 06:11 PM)Matt120 Wrote:
(August 1st 2013, 02:05 AM)Archmage Alator Wrote: It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his/her source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That as been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this makes me annoyed..." Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt doe over a night.

I sometimes think I know a pretty good amount of lore...but then I read comments like this. *Sigh* Ah well.^^ Your criticisms are very interesting though, and I'm pretty interested to see his response, care if I pass them along to him?

And I am sure that you know much of the lore, I have had a hobby of just Learning the Tes for years... thats why I know pretty much :P
This post was last modified: August 3rd 2013, 02:15 AM by Archmage Alator


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(August 2nd 2013, 11:51 PM)Archmage Alator Wrote:
(August 2nd 2013, 06:11 PM)Matt120 Wrote:
(August 1st 2013, 02:05 AM)Archmage Alator Wrote: It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his/her source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That as been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this makes me annoyed... " Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt done over a night.

I sometimes think I know a pretty good amount of lore...but then I read comments like this. *Sigh* Ah well.^^ Your criticisms are very interesting though, and I'm pretty interested to see his response, care if I pass them along to him?

If he wants to discuss this its up to him to sign up here, because I will not sign up there. If you show it to him tell him that if he wants to argue about something he can PM me about it. Or we can just take it here. But if you want to you can pass them along to him.

But I have not read Everything, I might find more thing that can be discussed or are wrong... so you could wait with it or share it now.

Hmm, not exactly partial to idea if being a cross-site messenger boy =P And I doubt he'd be able to join up here, so I'll just leave it alone. I actually see that you have some lore articles written, I will definitely give those a read (especially a Redguard one, my favorite race).

*Edit: Looks like I have read your Redguard one. But I don't remember much of it, so I'm still gonna reread it =P
This post was last modified: August 4th 2013, 09:35 AM by Matt120
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(August 4th 2013, 09:28 AM)Matt120 Wrote:
(August 2nd 2013, 11:51 PM)Archmage Alator Wrote:
(August 2nd 2013, 06:11 PM)Matt120 Wrote:
(August 1st 2013, 02:05 AM)Archmage Alator Wrote: It is a good article, it brings most of their info togheter, though there are several things that I Think can be discussed. Like that men were all Lorkhans slaves, his/her source were a book written by someone, and that author I doubt knew about that. And that author also claimed that the Aedra were false gods... so its not a very reliable source, its more of ones opinions.

And also about that Boethiah "ate" Trinimac is false, we have been told that this should not be taken literally, Boethiah "devoured" Trinimac in some way but not "ate" him. That as been told by Malacath.

One thing I have seen that is pretty inaccurate, and that is "Men view creation as the creation of themselves, given opportunity. The elves though are spirits from the Gods, and view the creation and separation of themselves as a traumatic and terrible event which cut them off from each other and introduced the most horrendous sufferings into the World..." it says that men are not spirits of the gods as the elves are said to be, but. They have the same anscestors: The Ehlnofey, there were the wandering Ehlnofey who became men, and those who stayed in Aldmeris who became the Elves. Men and Elves are both decended from the gods, the beast races too, though there are not much info on that. The Elves and men were created at the same time. By the same kind of beings.

And also at the start when the author defends them, well that is right to do that they are not super-evil beings. But with the Elves we are talking about: Enslaving entire races and provinces, unmake the World, several of them have caused disasters in lust for Power...

While they have things to be credited for, all races have that more or less. They have much to be hated for aswell, and now I am not talking about their personality and how they act in the games.

And about that Altmer live for 600+ years, not impossible but not common, a common very old elf can become around 300 years.

And then that the part about "It seems that the settlement of what is now Saarthal had an object of enormous power beneath it that the humans had uncovered. While Ysgramor tried to conceal it, the Altmer heard about it as well. To prevent the humans from misusing it an 'Aldmeri' expedition was dispatched with help from internal sources. This attack was focused as a single pinpointed location; it was conceived in the usual Altmeri attention to detail, bypassing major civilian areas and military installations to focus around a single goal. Ysgramor, rallying his people, turned the operation into a bloodbath by stalling it which led to mass destruction. Slaughter was not the goal, fires broke out afterward and the city was abandoned while Ysgramor fled from Skyrim back to Atmora (Night of Tears, Imperial Report on Saarthal). The remaining humans seem to have been integrated with the Falmer and Direnni Altmer as the Aldmer soldiers withdrew, creating the Breton race (Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition). Ysgramor's return, his exploits, and that of King Herald is a matter for the Nords, Bretons, and the history of Skyrim. Humans wouldn't play a role in the Altmeri sphere of influence for several more centuries and then it would come from a very different group."

That is just a bad attempt to defend them for what they did. The Nords found the Eye of Magnus: an object of immense Power. The Elves became afraid of it and wanted it for themselves while the Nords were wise enough to see that such an object shouldnt be wielded. The Nords tried to hide it, and the Elves attacked Saarthal since they were afraid that the humans should wield it against them. And it ended with he city sacked almost everyone dead. And the Elves trying to find it, though they failed since they were driven away Before they could find it by 500 Companions and Ysgramor.

It was when the humans returned as the Atmorans of High Rock were enslaved by High Elves, and all such. And some of the modern human races were created.

And this makes me annoyed... " Tiber Septim's Empire continued to expand into Black Marsh then Morrowind, where Tiber Septim negotiated for peace with the Tribunal, avoiding an all out war. What wasn't known was one of the terms of agreement to avoid the war was Vivec exchanging peace for their artifact, Numidium. With Zurin Arctus dispatched to Alinor, a peace summit was scheduled averting a declaration of war (On Morrowind, Arcturian Heresy). The Imperials and Dominion lived in a tense but brief period of harmony for several years. Before Vivec's deal Septim had given up on any notion of defeating or attacking the Dominion in any way despite his known hatred and dislike for the elves (Arcturian Heresy, Redguard). He still used propaganda and human ethnocentrism as common tools but tried to supress the many uprising that plagued the empire with diplomatic solutions. Meanwhile, even as the Imperials were being opposed by Hammerfell and High Rock the Dominion were making alliances with both the Bretons of the Reach in what is now Skyrim, as well as the Redguards of Stros M'Kai, the now vacant seat of the Thassad dynasty. The Khajiit of Elsweyr, on the othe rhand, chose to remain neutral under their Mane (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition, Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd edition, Redguard). Sepitm was their opponent, and while he was reviled in the human lands for being an oath-breaker, a traitor, and a liar, his Altmeri critics lauded him for being a politician who used diplomacy rather than warfare as a first resort with respects to foreign policy. Even the more warlike places such as Skyrim were noted for generally not being interested in any conflict with the Dominion in the days leading up to the breaking Point"

That is a bloody lie, Tiber Septim had not "given up all hope of deafeting the Dominion" he feared the Dunmer and their living gods, and couldnt afford a two-front war with the Dominion and Morrowind. And he were loved by the humans, most of them anyway... not as he is described here.

And the author here says that the Empire used a secret attack and destroyed the Dominion in an overnight, but that is false, the Numidium with the help of the Imperial army destroyed the Altmer armies and fleets and then the Dominion surrendered, this wasnt done over a night.

I sometimes think I know a pretty good amount of lore...but then I read comments like this. *Sigh* Ah well.^^ Your criticisms are very interesting though, and I'm pretty interested to see his response, care if I pass them along to him?

If he wants to discuss this its up to him to sign up here, because I will not sign up there. If you show it to him tell him that if he wants to argue about something he can PM me about it. Or we can just take it here. But if you want to you can pass them along to him.

But I have not read Everything, I might find more thing that can be discussed or are wrong... so you could wait with it or share it now.

Hmm, not exactly partial to idea if being a cross-site messenger boy =P And I doubt he'd be able to join up here, so I'll just leave it alone. I actually see that you have some lore articles written, I will definitely give those a read (especially a Redguard one, my favorite race).

*Edit: Looks like I have read your Redguard one. But I don't remember much of it, so I'm still gonna reread it =P

Yeah, and he spoke in the Altmeri view so... I just didnt want that anyone started Believe in the things that I brought up. Even if some of it were just views...
This post was last modified: August 4th 2013, 10:29 AM by Archmage Alator


The Archmage of the council of Arcanea.

We are openly recruiting, any Roleplayers in the Covenant who are looking for a Guild, this is the Guild for you http://www.tesof.com/topic-the-council-o...ying-guild
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Even if he was speaking from an Altmeri perspective, at least it balances out the Imperial bias we see elsewhere.

And stop quoting entire walls of text. Seriously, now....


By arrow. By blade.
By tooth. By claw.
By shock. By frost. By flame.
The Aldmeri Dominion will dominate Tamriel.
Our enemies will fall until the Throne is ours.

Ulwe Wrote:Oh my gosh I love shish-kabretons!
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Imperial bias, that doest exist... ;)

Ok, I were done anyway.


The Archmage of the council of Arcanea.

We are openly recruiting, any Roleplayers in the Covenant who are looking for a Guild, this is the Guild for you http://www.tesof.com/topic-the-council-o...ying-guild
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Alator, you know that most of the Lore we have about anything in TES is written from various viewpoints. Your whole view of the Altmer is biased against them. You can't honestly believe that the histories are 100% true and unbiased. This gives us more of the view of the Altmer, which should help us understand them more, so by coming from reading all of it you simply say "That was all a lie because of this and this and this..." you are missing the point. And we(elves) can say that all elves have existed longer than men just as much as you can say that men and mer are the same age, because elves truly believe that they did exist before Nirn and there is no actual proof to say otherwise. We just have to contradicting beliefs.


‎I must not fear. Fear is the mid-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total annihilation. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
:D gokgs.com
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