Join the Ashes of Creation MMORPG
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)

User created content, and why "**** everything you thought about cosmetic items"


Started by Sordak
Post #33821
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

Listening to TBs content patch today i heard about something that could be potentialy boost TESOs revenue significantly while also giving players an incentivise to be creative.

I am talking about user created content, that is then sold back to costumers (with a small cut from the revenue potentialy going back to the original creator for additional incentive to actually do that damn thing)
First and foremost im talking about things like cosmetic items. I dont know how many of you are in the DotA 2 beta but its save to assume most of you at least tried team fortress 2 at some point.
And you should be fammiliar with the Steam Workshop, you areo n the internet afterall.

Basically the idea is that people create content, such as cosmetic gear for characters, wich is already HUGE in the Elder Scrolls modding scene. That is then verified by ZOSs Team and implemented in a game, beeing sold.

This is basically free cosmetics. And ALOT of them. The idea of something you made beeing put into a massive game is already huge. Now think about it if you would actually be able to make money on that (with a large part of it going to ZOS)
Thats some huge potential right there.
And it works perfectly in TF2 and DotA 2.

Of course you might think "will we see those skimpy armors on ESO then?" well no.
That gear would of course be surveyed by the Team of ZOS.
But "hurr durr you say" because you are an Imga "that would be too much work maintaining all that stuff" and i say no, you silly little ape-man, because its still cheaper than making that damn stuff yourself.

Its easy to dismiss this as beeing low quality. But if you look at TF2 and DotA 2 you see some pretty damn great stuff there. Partly alot better than anything the Devs ever pumped out. And with such a constant stream its mind boggling.

And if you look at Skyrim Nexus youll see the TES community is very capeable of doing so.

Did i already mention Everquest 2 is already doing that? No? well ape it! Ape it hard!

It does not matter what you think of cosmetic items. Im sceptical of them myself in a TES enviroment. but check this out http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/01/top-tf...customers/
Check the numbers. You see that? thats a TON of money right there.

Now imagine that in an MMO. Where you can show off that stuff ALOT easier to other people, where the store might be alot better integrated.

And that does not even need to be restricted to items, think of housing wich we know is coming after endgame. Various kinds of furniture, people love that shit. You know how many copies The Sims sells?. I dont want to go too crazy right now with what this could end up beeing.

But i think passing that oportunity is stupid. Especialy since this is a thing that has only emerged recently. Its the perfect time to make a large step into that direction and take a piece of the cake.
And keep in mind: TES runs on user created content.
No company can keep up with that. So monetize it (and even better, give money to the artist too, everybody wins)

Just a wild idea i had while i heard about that article.
This post was last modified: February 4th 2013, 12:57 PM by Reichmar12
Like this post Reply
The following 4 users Like Sordak's post:
-Nckx, CedarLilly, leaky, Oddvard
Post #33835
Member

Likes Given: 60
Likes Received: 137
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
I think if there were mods that gave your character skimpy armours in your own client, but showed up as standard armour to everyone else, that would be fine. That's just a local asset management thing.

The issue is to allow player mods, even approved ones, the client itself must be mod-able as previous single player games were. This makes potentially game-breaking mods possible.

- Expanding armours of enemy players to huge blocky monstrosities, or texturing them all neon pink so they are easily visible from a distance in PvP.
- Shrinking all tree meshes to bush size to give line of sight.
- Colour coding armour of your own realm and others to avoid battle confusion.

If the client is mod-able to allow players to build these mods for submission, how do you prevent such mods from being distributed outside the "approved" TESO channels? So there needs to be limits, and human ingenuity tells me those restrictions will be far more strict than you would think.

IMHO most of the mods will be UI related.
Like this post Reply
Post #33839
Member

Likes Given: 120
Likes Received: 115
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
Wow i actually suggested same thins in many topic her in TESOF, especially in all that time wasting topics of which pay method should ESO be, seeing others think like this made me really happy, if they make Buy CD then play (like GW2 did) and then make in game store where moders can make items get approved by ZOS to be lore friendly and then sell with part of cost going to moders. Just think the possibility pets, Armor Skin, Armor models, Weapon models, like you mentioned HOUSING furniture, and what about GUILD HOUSING furniture? just think how many guilds would sink money into it, and if this works out i could see Spell Templates and Summoned creatures skins as possibility, just think want you zombie look like one of zombies from Walking dead? or more realistic skin for your Storm Atorach, possibility are endless. Not to mention somthin that other games lack, huge stock of items to chose from, most in game stores haw 10-50 items and they all look like crap.

I wonder if there is any way we can "petition" this suggestion to ZOS. This way ESO could actually bring somthin revolutionary to MMO industry.
Like this post Reply
The following 1 user likes Ewan's post:
Mezno
Post #33843
Member

Likes Given: 87
Likes Received: 116
Faction & Race:
Aldmeri Dominion (Khajiit)
Khajiit thinks this kind of 'store' is the only kind of 'store' that would be accepted by both the MMO and the TES Lore community that would attend to TESO...
This post was last modified: February 4th 2013, 01:44 PM by Qa Dar



Va Khaj Dar, To be Desert Thief, is not only our name.
It is also our way of life.
Like this post Reply
Post #33844
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

(February 4th 2013, 01:19 PM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote: I think if there were mods that gave your character skimpy armours in your own client, but showed up as standard armour to everyone else, that would be fine. That's just a local asset management thing.

The issue is to allow player mods, even approved ones, the client itself must be mod-able as previous single player games were. This makes potentially game-breaking mods possible.

- Expanding armours of enemy players to huge blocky monstrosities, or texturing them all neon pink so they are easily visible from a distance in PvP.
- Shrinking all tree meshes to bush size to give line of sight.
- Colour coding armour of your own realm and others to avoid battle confusion.

If the client is mod-able to allow players to build these mods for submission, how do you prevent such mods from being distributed outside the "approved" TESO channels? So there needs to be limits, and human ingenuity tells me those restrictions will be far more strict than you would think.

IMHO most of the mods will be UI related.

you get it wrong. this is not about getting "mods" in the game. in that sense.
It means getting player created armors or other art assets as cosmetic items into the game.
Like this post Reply
Post #33849
Member

Likes Given: 60
Likes Received: 137
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
(February 4th 2013, 01:44 PM)Sordak Wrote: you get it wrong. this is not about getting "mods" in the game. in that sense.
It means getting player created armors or other art assets as cosmetic items into the game.

That's what I meant. If you can submit armour mods for review, it stands to reason that you need to mod your own client first to test them before submission.

I just mentioned that being freely able to mod armour in your own client can give you an in-game advantage. It's not just a PvE game anymore so people will be looking for any edge they can get.

What they could do is have an option you could "switch on" that would disable hash checking of your game files by the remote server, but only allow you to load your character into an uninhabited phase. Then you could work on your armour mods while the rest of the players won't have to worry about any unfair advantage.

Alternatively, they could release a completely separate design program (a la the Construction Kit) with full rendering so you could work on your armour mods without having to import them into your client.
Like this post Reply
Post #33855
Member

Likes Given: 3
Likes Received: 3
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
Honestly you made me smile and dance a little jig this afternoon. Reason is I recently wrote an article some what touching on the subject.

http://www.tesof.com/topic-one-question-...ike-to-ask

I absolutely agree with your statements and feel that this type of participation from the community can only expand the love and fan base for Tesof.

The one question I would like developers to ask themselves. Is the game ready? I.e. is the game being pushed out by financial backing, management or what have you. If this one simple question can be answered in depth and honestly, I believe we will have a successful new champion of MMO’s.


Click
Like this post Reply
Post #33857
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

(February 4th 2013, 01:52 PM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote:
(February 4th 2013, 01:44 PM)Sordak Wrote: you get it wrong. this is not about getting "mods" in the game. in that sense.
It means getting player created armors or other art assets as cosmetic items into the game.

That's what I meant. If you can submit armour mods for review, it stands to reason that you need to mod your own client first to test them before submission.

I just mentioned that being freely able to mod armour in your own client can give you an in-game advantage. It's not just a PvE game anymore so people will be looking for any edge they can get.

What they could do is have an option you could "switch on" that would disable hash checking of your game files by the remote server, but only allow you to load your character into an uninhabited phase. Then you could work on your armour mods while the rest of the players won't have to worry about any unfair advantage.

Alternatively, they could release a completely separate design program (a la the Construction Kit) with full rendering so you could work on your armour mods without having to import them into your client.

Not necceserily. if you do it like steam workshop. you could probably only modd in a save "preview" enviroment.
Also it could also be a case of them giving you a framework of like "thats how its gotta be to be game ready" then add it to the verification process (mostly involving community voting and consistency checking) and then beeing addet in the game by the dev team.

i mean. you mentioned alot of that stuff yourself. so there realy isnt much of a question here.
I think they could pull something like that off without *ruining* the game.
Like this post Reply
Post #33858
Member

Likes Given: 3
Likes Received: 3
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)
(February 4th 2013, 01:19 PM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote: I think if there were mods that gave your character skimpy armours in your own client, but showed up as standard armour to everyone else, that would be fine. That's just a local asset management thing.

The issue is to allow player mods, even approved ones, the client itself must be mod-able as previous single player games were. This makes potentially game-breaking mods possible.

- Expanding armours of enemy players to huge blocky monstrosities, or texturing them all neon pink so they are easily visible from a distance in PvP.
- Shrinking all tree meshes to bush size to give line of sight.
- Colour coding armour of your own realm and others to avoid battle confusion.

If the client is mod-able to allow players to build these mods for submission, how do you prevent such mods from being distributed outside the "approved" TESO channels? So there needs to be limits, and human ingenuity tells me those restrictions will be far more strict than you would think.

IMHO most of the mods will be UI related.

To start off with it seems like you’re a bit of a control freak and worried about losing your job. As for the game breaking mods no matter what you do there will be some person or group working on cracking the game. There is no security through obscurity. This is been proven through countless numbers of open source software. The elder scrolls game series has been one of the most modified games in history which has accounted for much of the gamers following it. Don’t be scared of change and embrace the wild ride we are headed for.

The one question I would like developers to ask themselves. Is the game ready? I.e. is the game being pushed out by financial backing, management or what have you. If this one simple question can be answered in depth and honestly, I believe we will have a successful new champion of MMO’s.


Click
Like this post Reply
Post #33862
Member

Likes Given: 120
Likes Received: 115
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
(February 4th 2013, 01:52 PM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote:
(February 4th 2013, 01:44 PM)Sordak Wrote: you get it wrong. this is not about getting "mods" in the game. in that sense.
It means getting player created armors or other art assets as cosmetic items into the game.

That's what I meant. If you can submit armour mods for review, it stands to reason that you need to mod your own client first to test them before submission.

I just mentioned that being freely able to mod armour in your own client can give you an in-game advantage. It's not just a PvE game anymore so people will be looking for any edge they can get.

What they could do is have an option you could "switch on" that would disable hash checking of your game files by the remote server, but only allow you to load your character into an uninhabited phase. Then you could work on your armour mods while the rest of the players won't have to worry about any unfair advantage.

Alternatively, they could release a completely separate design program (a la the Construction Kit) with full rendering so you could work on your armour mods without having to import them into your client.

Actually its not as hard to do as you may think, you "request" a program that is bound your account, you create your mode or model which wont come in the same "file type"(i know there is a specific name but i totally blank out right now and cent remember what is called) and send it to ZOS, then if that mode gets approved it will get converted into game friendlily file and add at next Update that can happen 2in2 week's, aka 2 times a month.

There a lot of games that do somthin similar, like League of Legends, but there is none that are MMO, so ESO could be first.
This post was last modified: February 4th 2013, 02:09 PM by Ewan
Like this post Reply
Post #33866
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

(February 4th 2013, 02:07 PM)Ewan Wrote:
(February 4th 2013, 01:52 PM)Cools-His-Hands Wrote:
(February 4th 2013, 01:44 PM)Sordak Wrote: you get it wrong. this is not about getting "mods" in the game. in that sense.
It means getting player created armors or other art assets as cosmetic items into the game.

That's what I meant. If you can submit armour mods for review, it stands to reason that you need to mod your own client first to test them before submission.

I just mentioned that being freely able to mod armour in your own client can give you an in-game advantage. It's not just a PvE game anymore so people will be looking for any edge they can get.

What they could do is have an option you could "switch on" that would disable hash checking of your game files by the remote server, but only allow you to load your character into an uninhabited phase. Then you could work on your armour mods while the rest of the players won't have to worry about any unfair advantage.

Alternatively, they could release a completely separate design program (a la the Construction Kit) with full rendering so you could work on your armour mods without having to import them into your client.

Actually its not as hard to do as you may think, you "request" a program that is bound your account, you create your mode or model which wont come in the same "file type"(i know there is a specific name but i totally blank out right now and cent remember what is called) and send it to ZOS, then if that mode gets approved it will get converted into game friendlily file and add at next Update that can happen 2in2 week's, aka 2 times a month.

There a lot of games that do somthin similar, like League of Legends, but there is none that are MMO, so ESO could be first.

DotA 2 is doing it in a rather advanced way.
With a community voting system. its rather great.

Everquest 2 is the first MMORPG to do it afaik. They also got a dungeon creator.
Like this post Reply
Post #33875
Member

Likes Given: 120
Likes Received: 115
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Dunmer)
Oh i dint know that :S. Btw the prices in dota are insane single item costs 10$+, and its not set or total makeover, just single piece of item :S. I hope they wont make that insane prices in ESO. 10$ for entire model i could understand as fair price, but single gear piece :S... NO!
Like this post Reply
Post #33878
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

(February 4th 2013, 02:24 PM)Ewan Wrote: Oh i dint know that :S. Btw the prices in dota are insane single item costs 10$+, and its not set or total makeover, just single piece of item :S. I hope they wont make that insane prices in ESO. 10$ for entire model i could understand as fair price, but single gear piece :S... NO!

dont think so.
Most items actually cost around 1 dollar. Sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less.
You can also get them alot cheaper through trading (wich valve also gets a cut off so they dont care)

The only things that are realy expensive are the "mythical" things and thats the ones that players created for contests such as the Polycount Contest.
And they are getting a 25% share of that. so i think its just a little bit extra for the artist there.

i also recently got a mythic item for free and must say they arent that rare.
Like this post Reply
Post #33889
Member

Likes Given: 0
Likes Received: 82
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Nord)
Neverwinter Online will release with what Cryptic is calling The Foundry, and it is able to even create new adventures for players to take part in. All new missions/quests from the foundry need to go through a testing phase and I think certain number of ordinary players have to test your quest and then the quest will be shown on places like bulletin boards outside the local inn and players can then choose player made adventure which are rated with a star system by others who have already played it.

Neverwinter Foundry demo from Andy Velasquez lead producer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pn7iU4EwTc
Like this post Reply
Post #33890
Banned

Likes Given: 46
Likes Received: 867
Faction & Race:
Ebonheart Pact (Argonian)

(February 4th 2013, 02:53 PM)Elember Wrote: Neverwinter Online will release with what Cryptic is calling The Foundry, and it is able to even create new adventures for players to take part in. All new missions/quests from the foundry need to go through a testing phase and I think certain number of ordinary players have to test your quest and then the quest will be shown on places like bulletin boards outside the local inn and players can then choose player made adventure which are rated with a star system by others who have already played it.

Neverwinter Foundry demo from Andy Velasquez lead producer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pn7iU4EwTc

i know about that, and id love that in TESO, BUT they havent mentioned a system like that so its certainly not going to be in at least at launch.

of course that would be the logical extension of what i mentioned. but i wanted to imply babysteps first. you know something that they might actually implement at launch.

a system like the foundry takes ALOT of consideration and work. And if its not a major thing by now its going to take a long while till something like this will be happening.

Would definitly like it tho.
Like this post Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
(Register or log in to remove advertisements - why ads?)


This fan site is not affiliated with ZeniMax Media Inc. or any of its subsidiaries. Including, but not limited to, Bethesda Game Studios and ZeniMax Online Studios.
The Elder Scrolls® images © ZeniMax Media Inc. / Forum content © TESOF.com