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What room do you think there is for antitheism in TES lore?


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In referring to antitheism, I am particularly referring to: Atheism, Agnosticism, Ignosticism, Deism, or the sort thereof. I'd also like to start this question off by also including that one switch to an antitheist philosophy could be due to realizing that these "Daedra" or "Aedra" only had power equivalent to how many people would believe them and not just for the basis of refusing to believe in them.

So yeah, opinions? (Aside from how no amount of lore can possibly account for every single individual ever possibly-born in the particular universe or that sort of stuff.)


"Where choice begins, Paradise ends, innocence ends, for what is Paradise but the absence of any need to choose this action?" - Arthur Miller
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I'm pretty sure there are a few people in Oblivion that are doubtful about the existence of the Nine and they all(the people that don't believe in the nine that is) to my knowledge know that Daedra exist because they do stuff, it's not always good stuff but it's still proof.

I think one of them was a Dunmer Woman in Cheyindal and there was a Nord Woman in Bruma that was part of the Dagon-cult and literally named God-hater(or something like that, it's been years since I last played Oblivion).
This post was last modified: January 11th 2014, 03:17 AM by JHShadon
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Cydramech
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The Psijics never use the terms "gods" or "divines" among themselves, and believe there are simply various types of Spirits who have learned to manipulate reality to varying degrees. The Dwemer acknowledged the gods existed, but didn't revere or worship them in a traditional sense. They studied them as they would study electricity or alchemy - just another aspect of the universe that could be unraveled and made to serve them.
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(January 11th 2014, 03:16 AM)JHShadon Wrote: I'm pretty sure there are a few people in Oblivion that are doubtful about the existence of the Nine and they all(the people that don't believe in the nine that is) to my knowledge know that Daedra exist because they do stuff, it's not always good stuff but it's still proof.

I think one of them was a Dunmer Woman in Cheyindal and there was a Nord Woman in Bruma that was part of the Dagon-cult and literally named God-hater(or something like that, it's been years since I last played Oblivion).

I believe her name was Ilsa God-Hater. Although she isn't really antitheistic since she still believes in the Daedra, that's the closest that you'll get to an athiest in the Elder Scrolls universe (since only crazy people don't believe in Daedra because as Ilsa herself has said: they're obviously doing stuff). While non-belief in the 8/9 is much more rare in TES than in the real world (kind of hard to refute when Martin turns into an Aspect of Akatosh), it certainly has a place.
This post was last modified: January 13th 2014, 11:14 AM by vigk vagk v2


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In terms of game lore its pretty hard to be anti-theist, after all, upset the wrong god and he might just show up to punch you in the face. I could see a group being founded to oppose worship or work against certain deities, but a stance of denial seems to be difficult to maintain.
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yeah its kinda hard to refute a gods existence when it can (and would) easily show up and prove you wrong.... personally in RL i am an atheist but in-game best bet is to choose one you like and roll with it... unless of course you have the heart of Lorkhan then they wouldnt really be gods if they are your equals... hmmm become a god, kill all other gods then destroy yourself... BAM!! in-game Anti-theism!!
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RPers always find a way, they always do.
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Ever since I killed Vivec I understood the true meaning of "God" in the ES lore. And by this understanding, I was a God. I built a castle in the mountains overlooking Balmora, wandered the land and killed anything that didn't agree with me.

True Gods cannot be killed. Daedra and Divines may not be the same as us, but they may likely be killable. Otherwise, they could be elements of lore kept alive by faith, or legends of once living heroes.

In a world where magic is commonly used, spirit planes are well traveled, and power comes as easily as the number of bandits you've killed rises, there are no true gods.
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Well though existence of Aedra and Daedra are not up for debate, wheter they're subjects of worship or not is. They're just powerfull beings...
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i think a good way to answer question is to research real world faith during imperialism.

was religion mandatory during imperial rome?

was it social taboo to not believe like puritan colonial america?

I would tend to think that Religion is mandatory since people are living in an Empire. Even the free spirited Nord are strong in their faith. Alessia was praised for her ability to unite people's by editting two different religions. religion is a big deal in TES.


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(February 4th 2014, 02:07 PM)BrutusGargantua Wrote: Ever since I killed Vivec I understood the true meaning of "God" in the ES lore. And by this understanding, I was a God. I built a castle in the mountains overlooking Balmora, wandered the land and killed anything that didn't agree with me.

True Gods cannot be killed. Daedra and Divines may not be the same as us, but they may likely be killable. Otherwise, they could be elements of lore kept alive by faith, or legends of once living heroes.

In a world where magic is commonly used, spirit planes are well traveled, and power comes as easily as the number of bandits you've killed rises, there are no true gods.

Aedra are killable, though they spirits are immortal. Daedra are both immortal in spirit and body but must regain lost energy in the waters
of oblivion if "killed".

@op it's not really possible. The Aedra are only influenced by people due to the fact they are bound to Nirn, which is also why they can be killed. The Daedra on the other hand do not require worship, they seek it as it is their nature. They are pretty much aspects of change and seek to achieve the desires within their spheres. This is one of the reasons worshippers are expendable to the Daedra, as they are just pawns in a grand game. If they are no longer useful then might as well get rid of them.
This post was last modified: February 10th 2014, 11:16 PM by Dragonchris
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Vivec, or any of the Tribunal for that matter, is not a god by any means.

He's extremely powerful but he is not a god. In fact before Yokuda sunk Vivec had to flee from an Ansei named Cyrus the Restless who threatened to kill Vivec by splitting atoms (albeit it was a bluff but still).


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