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What's wrong with the keys?


Started by djwolf
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I am fast becoming disenchanted with this game and I don't know if it is because I'm doing something wrong or because I am in Australia a long way from the server.

I'm in a fight, I press "q" for a health potion and nothing happens. I smash the "q" key 5 times and if I'm lucky it may engage before I die but usually it doesn't. I hit "1" to initiate my attack... nothing. I hit it again... I throw my hands in the air ready to hurl the keyboard through the monitor and lo and behold the attack initiates. Regardless of what I do there's a delay and in a fight its almost as if there's a crazy cueing system where if you press a key before something else has finished the computer ignores your command. I hate this system. I hate continuously dying and putting every bit of loot into repair bills.
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Post #167007
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(April 13th 2014, 08:24 AM)djwolf Wrote: I am fast becoming disenchanted with this game and I don't know if it is because I'm doing something wrong or because I am in Australia a long way from the server.

I'm in a fight, I press "q" for a health potion and nothing happens. I smash the "q" key 5 times and if I'm lucky it may engage before I die but usually it doesn't. I hit "1" to initiate my attack... nothing. I hit it again... I throw my hands in the air ready to hurl the keyboard through the monitor and lo and behold the attack initiates. Regardless of what I do there's a delay and in a fight its almost as if there's a crazy cueing system where if you press a key before something else has finished the computer ignores your command. I hate this system. I hate continuously dying and putting every bit of loot into repair bills.

You should consider the game mechanics to understand this, and therefore understand how to modify your handling of combat.

Even though the game is considered "real time" combat, it actually operates more like "turn-based" combat. He attacks, your client checks to see if you are blocking. You can even attack him simultaneously to his attacking you, but then you are not blocking. But this is not the point. When an attack commences, the client checks to see what input you have given to do during that attack; it then process that action/inaction until the end of that attack turn! This means that you cannot drink a potion until the beginning of the next attack turn (nor can you block if you already are considered as not blocking at the beginning of that turn). It's kinda like 'you can't do that bc you are swinging your sword right now.' A turn typically takes about a second, but sometimes can take two seconds, other times less than a second. This is just the first concept you need to know.


The second, is that the game 'queues' your actions. This is to say, that when you attack (or block) an opponent, you see the result immediately; but while the action is taking place on the screen, you can 'tell your char to hit again (or block) next.' But this second action is not going to happen until your current turn ends. You can queue more than one waiting action, I don't know how many you can queue. That means, if you press the L mouse button once to attack, and before the attack ends you press it again, that you have queued the next action already; and therfore if you want to do something else like take a potion, you must wait for all the queued actions to finish first, the game does not give you a way to "un-queue" AFAIK*.

The third thing you need to know: Queued actions can snowball as you have a "clickfest." You pressed that button 10 times during the single turn? Now you have to wait about 10-15 sec. to let all those actions take place before you can do ANYTHING else - unless the target dies. *When the presently engaged target dies, all your queue is flushed, and your queued actions cease after the present action ends. Otherwise, you just have to wait out your actions, but you can continue to move and aim between/during the actions. The most important point here is: If you start hitting buttons like this is a cheap console game, you will queue up several actions and thus will prevent you from quickly executing a DIFFERENT action when needed, such as taking a potion! DON'T HIT YOUR BUTTONS FRANTICALLY! You will just end up tying yourself up, for a likely loss if the opponent is worthy. FYI.


That said, I still have trouble sometimes taking potions myself, my satellite lag may be 50% or more to blame for that.


Skyrim conquerer. Morrowind and Oblivion vet. Long-time single-player computer gamer W/custom-made hi-perf OCd PC. Mostly RTS and a few action games.
Noob to MMOs.
Crappy satellite Internet very laggy pings 700-1000 not god for gaming, can't play most online games but ESO works good enough.
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Post #167017
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Thank you for that. Most informative. MMmmm this is going to be hard.
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Post #167019
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I found its surely easy to kill some targets by spam nuking them down.
However if you take your time with the combat, and you react to each thing that comes as soon as it happens everything works a bit smoother, and also you will get better loot.

Just a heads up though, a lot of potions will heal you an amount immediately, but then they follow it with a HoT. So if you use one, and you get hit at the same time, you may not even notice that it has healed you.
Alternatively as previously suggested, if its not using the item at all, you probably just need to slow it down a bit.
I mean, you would be a pretty badass guy if you could drink potions while summoning a storm atronach or something of the sort.


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Post #167039
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I went to bed and thought of your advice. The potion issue is cleared up by the timer of it engaging - it's obvious when you have drunk it. However, I also have abilities that heal me - one for a 30% of damage taken and my templar has healing lines. When I wrote the opening post I was furious. I had just left yet another quest line unfinished because another character could not defeat the boss mob. So let me outline something different but related.

"Rift" had this crazy idea of computing battle and other player input on the server rather than on the client installation which made where you live relevant. We called this MMO "Ping Wars" because it wasn't just Australians who suffered. Those living only a single leg from the server dominated PVP but it came to a head for me when I complained that I couldn't do a puzzle where you clicked on a stone when it changed to a matching colour for a second. I managed to do the puzzle by working out what the match was two colour changes before. The MMOs I have been playing for 12 years, "Everquest" and "Everquest 2" knew that even in the USA or Europe (their biggest markets) that there were huge variations in ping and to level the playing field the computations and response to input were all performed on the client's PC.

I have noticed that when harvesting I have a similar problem to combat. I hit the "E" key and there is about a 1 second (possibly more) delay before I bend down. In fact, when someone is racing me to a harvesting node, I give up now because I can't beat them. This became very clear when I stood above a node, hit "E" and then someone else rode in on their horse, jumped off, and bent down to take the node before my "E" key could respond. Was this due to other 'unknown' commands being executed first? Every single time? Or has ESO implemented a system where your viability is determined by how far away you are from the server? Because I have noticed another effect from this. Sometimes if I hit the "E" to open a door or portal or harvest a node or even if I hit "1" to commence an attack and my computer is dealing with something else like someone else using the same function (door or portal for example) or the response from the opposing mob to my proximity my casting is not delayed, it is canceled and I have to hit the "E" or the "1" again. So, in a battle situation I'm sitting here going, "Now, Now, NOW WOULD BE GREAT!!!" and then realising that its not the usual delay but that I need to cast again. Not knowing if it is the delay I have become used to or an action cancelled by the game leads me to spam my healing abilities when dying and makes combat impossible.

In regards to your explanation... EQ and EQ2 allowed the queuing of abilities but raiding would not be possible if players could not respond to changing circumstances the instant they occurred. This worked by allowing the abilities to execute as programmed as long as different instructions weren't input. That is, you can't que three different attacks (you write macros for those to create a single input). The moment a new instruction is sent like "heal the raid" the current action is completed and the queued actions are replaced by the last instruction. In fact, being 'Johnny on the spot' is so critical that keyboard codes that are commonly written in as a macro are used to interrupt the current spell casting so that a heal can be cast immediately.

To summarise: Even if you are right and there is no 'distance lag" but rather what I am experiencing are queued inputs measuring up against the virtual world responses... it's crazy man. It means that I have to know exactly when every one of my actions have been completed and respond at the speed of light to cast/use the next ability because my survival depends upon my ability to have control of my computer and what it does when I need it.

So, where does this leave me? I am reminded of dialogue from the series "Rome" where a soldier tells the young soon-to-be emperor that his tiresome sword training will be of use since some ability will be better than none at all. The young man responds with, "The gutters of Rome are filled with the corpses of mediocre swordsman. If that is not where your skill lies it is best not to pick up a sword at all."
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Post #167091
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(April 13th 2014, 08:59 PM)djwolf Wrote: I have noticed that when harvesting I have a similar problem to combat. I hit the "E" key and there is about a 1 second (possibly more) delay before I bend down. In fact, when someone is racing me to a harvesting node, I give up now because I can't beat them. This became very clear when I stood above a node, hit "E" and then someone else rode in on their horse, jumped off, and bent down to take the node before my "E" key could respond.

Wow, I have this prob too, and really that bad. I have ran up to nodes when I seen no-one else around and bfr I can take it (just like you said) somebody ran up and took it bfr I could. It's gotten so bad I try hard to put my weapon away as I approach the node (it takes 1-2sec. of lag away). You see the game looks at those actions as two separate actions:
1. Put weapon away.
2. Is the node still available? Then harvest it.
Actually it's just another form of queing the actions. I hate it of course. But this does not account for all of the "lag" I seen when harvesting nodes.


(April 13th 2014, 08:59 PM)djwolf Wrote: Was this due to other 'unknown' commands being executed first? Every single time? Or has ESO implemented a system where your viability is determined by how far away you are from the server? Because I have noticed another effect from this. Sometimes if I hit the "E" to open a door or portal or harvest a node or even if I hit "1" to commence an attack and my computer is dealing with something else like someone else using the same function (door or portal for example) or the response from the opposing mob to my proximity my casting is not delayed, it is canceled and I have to hit the "E" or the "1" again. So, in a battle situation I'm sitting here going, "Now, Now, NOW WOULD BE GREAT!!!" and then realising that its not the usual delay but that I need to cast again. Not knowing if it is the delay I have become used to or an action cancelled by the game leads me to spam my healing abilities when dying and makes combat impossible.

Well I thought I had it worse than everybody else W/my satellite Internet lag, but now according to what you tell me I have to rethink the lag thing. I have to assume my case was not as unlike other ppls exp. Thanx for the info.


EDIT: I wonder if 1st person view might have something to do W/it? I am almost always in 1st person when I am gaming. I have switched to 3rd but not done much harvesting while doing so. I wonder if harvesting is quicker in 3rd person mode.
This post was last modified: April 14th 2014, 01:32 PM by HalloweenWeed


Skyrim conquerer. Morrowind and Oblivion vet. Long-time single-player computer gamer W/custom-made hi-perf OCd PC. Mostly RTS and a few action games.
Noob to MMOs.
Crappy satellite Internet very laggy pings 700-1000 not god for gaming, can't play most online games but ESO works good enough.
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Post #167101
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The issue is that I am guessing. I don't know. When you look at what happened to "Rift" I don't think any of us want to see this game lose the public support that "Rift" did. A game that does not put all players on an even playing field will fail. It is as simple as that.
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Post #167107
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I live in australia and the only issue I find with beating somebody to something is with Pinions at dark anchors, because the people stand right on top of it ready to shut it off.

In nodes you can interact with them from out of your range to pick them up, and your character moves closer to pick it up, so essentially if you and another player are racing for the same node, and you press E first at a further distance, they will then get the message 'somebody else is using that'.


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Post #167130
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(April 14th 2014, 02:58 PM)Avidus Wrote: In nodes you can interact with them from out of your range to pick them up, and your character moves closer to pick it up, so essentially if you and another player are racing for the same node, and you press E first at a further distance, they will then get the message 'somebody else is using that'.

Yeah I don't think our prob is that, Avidus. You see, we press E, and move fwd. Now, after we move fwd, we hear footsteps running up behind us, as the camera adjusts a little. We begin to crouch, the footsteps stop, but suddenly we get 'somebody else is using that' and stand back up. It happens in the 2-3 seconds that the game takes to adjust our stance. Very annoying. Or is it I just don't understand, I can't try it now like you suggest.


Skyrim conquerer. Morrowind and Oblivion vet. Long-time single-player computer gamer W/custom-made hi-perf OCd PC. Mostly RTS and a few action games.
Noob to MMOs.
Crappy satellite Internet very laggy pings 700-1000 not god for gaming, can't play most online games but ESO works good enough.
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