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What weapons are you excited/hopeful to see?


Started by vigk vagk v2
Post #34928
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Rrrwwooaarrrwww .... khajiity monk


TESO - - Multiplayer: "M'aiq does not know this word. You wish others to help you in your quest? Coward! If you must, search for the Argonian Im-Leet, or perhaps the big Nord, Rolf the Uber. They will certainly wish to join you." M'aiq the Liar.

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Post #34933
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(February 6th 2013, 12:10 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:06 PM)Sordak Wrote: never a fan of those weapons realy.
Too much rule of cool and not enaugh actual usefullness. You tend to get awfully close with those.

I can only see two Archetypes ever using that. Morag tong assasins or Kahjiiti Monks. But those prefer to fight barehandet.
Well if you can fight with your fists why not Blade gauntlets? I don't mind being a tankish monster ripping off your HP.

Maybe not your taste but defiantly mine.

first i find that kind of combat style extremeley silly and just not realistic enaugh for the TES setting.

secondly if you are not a skilled martial artist (again. other than the kahjiit, bareley anyone is), or a very stealthy character. You will be in extremeley close range to your enemy.

these claws are also poor for blocking any kind of incoming attack and will basically make you extremeley vulnerable to anyone using lets say a sword.

As he has further range, can block more effectiveley, does not have to worry about getting himself in danger when striking and requires not nearly as much skill. (even tho a sword is already quite a skillfull weapon)
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Post #34941
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(February 6th 2013, 12:25 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:10 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:06 PM)Sordak Wrote: never a fan of those weapons realy.
Too much rule of cool and not enaugh actual usefullness. You tend to get awfully close with those.

I can only see two Archetypes ever using that. Morag tong assasins or Kahjiiti Monks. But those prefer to fight barehandet.
Well if you can fight with your fists why not Blade gauntlets? I don't mind being a tankish monster ripping off your HP.

Maybe not your taste but defiantly mine.

first i find that kind of combat style extremeley silly and just not realistic enaugh for the TES setting.

secondly if you are not a skilled martial artist (again. other than the kahjiit, bareley anyone is), or a very stealthy character. You will be in extremeley close range to your enemy.

these claws are also poor for blocking any kind of incoming attack and will basically make you extremeley vulnerable to anyone using lets say a sword.

As he has further range, can block more effectiveley, does not have to worry about getting himself in danger when striking and requires not nearly as much skill. (even tho a sword is already quite a skillfull weapon)
You can use them in stealth maybe or with a shield so i don't see the problem and certainly not if you go "Tankish'' like i said if it isn't your taste its not worth it.

Well if you can use a spear you can beat anyone with a sword anyway so the realistic feeling argument is not going to work..
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Post #34950
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(February 6th 2013, 12:42 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:25 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:10 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:06 PM)Sordak Wrote: never a fan of those weapons realy.
Too much rule of cool and not enaugh actual usefullness. You tend to get awfully close with those.

I can only see two Archetypes ever using that. Morag tong assasins or Kahjiiti Monks. But those prefer to fight barehandet.
Well if you can fight with your fists why not Blade gauntlets? I don't mind being a tankish monster ripping off your HP.

Maybe not your taste but defiantly mine.

first i find that kind of combat style extremeley silly and just not realistic enaugh for the TES setting.

secondly if you are not a skilled martial artist (again. other than the kahjiit, bareley anyone is), or a very stealthy character. You will be in extremeley close range to your enemy.

these claws are also poor for blocking any kind of incoming attack and will basically make you extremeley vulnerable to anyone using lets say a sword.

As he has further range, can block more effectiveley, does not have to worry about getting himself in danger when striking and requires not nearly as much skill. (even tho a sword is already quite a skillfull weapon)
You can use them in stealth maybe or with a shield so i don't see the problem and certainly not if you go "Tankish'' like i said if it isn't your taste its not worth it.

Well if you can use a spear you can beat anyone with a sword anyway so the realistic feeling argument is not going to work..

a spear DOES have an advantage over the sword: reach.

battle claws have only disadvantages.
Strikes have less force behind them (go physics!), you have less range and youre exposed.
they are just pointless.
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Post #34955
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(February 6th 2013, 01:06 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:42 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:25 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:10 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 12:06 PM)Sordak Wrote: never a fan of those weapons realy.
Too much rule of cool and not enaugh actual usefullness. You tend to get awfully close with those.

I can only see two Archetypes ever using that. Morag tong assasins or Kahjiiti Monks. But those prefer to fight barehandet.
Well if you can fight with your fists why not Blade gauntlets? I don't mind being a tankish monster ripping off your HP.

Maybe not your taste but defiantly mine.

first i find that kind of combat style extremeley silly and just not realistic enaugh for the TES setting.

secondly if you are not a skilled martial artist (again. other than the kahjiit, bareley anyone is), or a very stealthy character. You will be in extremeley close range to your enemy.

these claws are also poor for blocking any kind of incoming attack and will basically make you extremeley vulnerable to anyone using lets say a sword.

As he has further range, can block more effectiveley, does not have to worry about getting himself in danger when striking and requires not nearly as much skill. (even tho a sword is already quite a skillfull weapon)
You can use them in stealth maybe or with a shield so i don't see the problem and certainly not if you go "Tankish'' like i said if it isn't your taste its not worth it.

Well if you can use a spear you can beat anyone with a sword anyway so the realistic feeling argument is not going to work..

a spear DOES have an advantage over the sword: reach.

battle claws have only disadvantages.
Strikes have less force behind them (go physics!), you have less range and youre exposed.
they are just pointless.
They are faster and normally do more damage since you are cutting three lines. If you want to be realistic a spear only needs one basic attack to kill someone with a sword.
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Post #34989
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(February 6th 2013, 01:12 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote: snip

three times the damage? no.
basic physics. the ammount of impuls stays the same on an inelastic push.
Force = m.a

In case of a strike the biological energy of your arm is transformed into kinetic energy (1/2at²) and forms an inelstic push on whatever it strikes.

Kinetic energy does not stay conserved and moves on to the flesh of your enemy cutting it.

what does that mean?
Well if force = m.a and kinetic energy is 1/2at² this indicates that splitting up the matter will actually not increase the force applied.

now lets go from a broader standpoint. the edge of a blade can concentrate more energy on one point. while the claws distribute the energy over a larger part, meaning you get less kinetic energy over one point of impact, wich means it is alot less effective against more resistant surfaces such as armor.

the way these blades are made, also means that the wound is not going to be a slice but a scratch, further distorting the energies vector.

basically if the vector is straight all of the strikes energy will force the blade into your enemies flesh.

seeing that the entire force is always the sum of all part-forces means that

Fe = F1 + F2 + F3 [....] + Fn

however those are vectors. Meanst hat it realy is:

Fe = [F1].cosα + [F2].cosβ + [F3].cosγ [...] + [Fn].cos ϕ

this means that the force on impact is actually lower the more distorted the angle is.

so no. a sword is better.
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Post #34991
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As to simply answer the OP: am hoping for nicely desgined bows. I love bows. Games can make or break this weapon, I hope they will be awesome.

One thing several others mentioned already as well; there are few games that do the spear right. Not something I'd prefer myself but it would be neat to see nice spear-animations and such, for a change.




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Post #35027
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(February 6th 2013, 02:11 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 01:12 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote: snip

three times the damage? no.
basic physics. the ammount of impuls stays the same on an inelastic push.
Force = m.a

In case of a strike the biological energy of your arm is transformed into kinetic energy (1/2at²) and forms an inelstic push on whatever it strikes.

Kinetic energy does not stay conserved and moves on to the flesh of your enemy cutting it.

what does that mean?
Well if force = m.a and kinetic energy is 1/2at² this indicates that splitting up the matter will actually not increase the force applied.

now lets go from a broader standpoint. the edge of a blade can concentrate more energy on one point. while the claws distribute the energy over a larger part, meaning you get less kinetic energy over one point of impact, wich means it is alot less effective against more resistant surfaces such as armor.

the way these blades are made, also means that the wound is not going to be a slice but a scratch, further distorting the energies vector.

basically if the vector is straight all of the strikes energy will force the blade into your enemies flesh.

seeing that the entire force is always the sum of all part-forces means that

Fe = F1 + F2 + F3 [....] + Fn

however those are vectors. Meanst hat it realy is:

Fe = [F1].cosα + [F2].cosβ + [F3].cosγ [...] + [Fn].cos ϕ

this means that the force on impact is actually lower the more distorted the angle is.

so no. a sword is better.
You forget the speed and how do you know when its never tested. What if the gauntlet blade is sharper then a sword? A sword is two arm length so 2 hit of the gauntlet equals 1 hits of the sword. Again this is not about which one is more realistic since magic staffs do not exist. I simply find the gauntlet blades look cool and i don't see how a dagger can be any more dangerous or harmful at all.

Ill repeat myself its not your taste so there is no need to reply..
This post was last modified: February 6th 2013, 02:38 PM by Dr Lizzio
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Post #35053
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the power still comes from your arms strenght. it means by using the claw you would spread the power of your muscles thinner.
A dagger is deadlier because the power is all on the edge, meaning it can effectiveley stab someone.
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Post #35074
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Im a fan of the spear/shield combo so I hope that shows up in game.

Besides that, wouldnt it be awesome if you could equip any kind of interactional objects. Like a spoon. Yes I know, it wouldnt be effective and the damage should be close to bare fists but it would certainly add to the game feeling to be able to smack someone in the face with a wooden ladle.
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Post #35088
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(February 6th 2013, 02:11 PM)Sordak Wrote:
(February 6th 2013, 01:12 PM)Dr Lizzio Wrote: snip

three times the damage? no.
basic physics. the ammount of impuls stays the same on an inelastic push.
Force = m.a

In case of a strike the biological energy of your arm is transformed into kinetic energy (1/2at²) and forms an inelstic push on whatever it strikes.

Kinetic energy does not stay conserved and moves on to the flesh of your enemy cutting it.

what does that mean?
Well if force = m.a and kinetic energy is 1/2at² this indicates that splitting up the matter will actually not increase the force applied.

now lets go from a broader standpoint. the edge of a blade can concentrate more energy on one point. while the claws distribute the energy over a larger part, meaning you get less kinetic energy over one point of impact, wich means it is alot less effective against more resistant surfaces such as armor.

the way these blades are made, also means that the wound is not going to be a slice but a scratch, further distorting the energies vector.

basically if the vector is straight all of the strikes energy will force the blade into your enemies flesh.

seeing that the entire force is always the sum of all part-forces means that

Fe = F1 + F2 + F3 [....] + Fn

however those are vectors. Meanst hat it realy is:

Fe = [F1].cosα + [F2].cosβ + [F3].cosγ [...] + [Fn].cos ϕ

this means that the force on impact is actually lower the more distorted the angle is.

so no. a sword is better.

Let me just say that I agree some these weapons wouldnt fit into the lore of ESO.

Having said that, I must tell you that all that physics only goes so far. As a martial artist, I can tell you that, in trained hands, there is no "useless" weapon. Claws and gauntlet type weapons have been used successfully for centuries against swords, spears, and many other hand weapons. A trained fighter can counter all the force ANY weapon can generate, and it only takes an item the size of a small pencil to finish off someone, with proper placement. Im just saying theres nothing "unrealistic" about these weapons. They can and do work very effectively. The real question is, which of these would fit into the the lore of the game, and could they realisticly be put into the game?

Id like to see whips or even certain chain based weapons in the game, but I think this would be a nightmare for the dev team, TBH.


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Post #35089
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Hopefully a semi quick but powerful claymore, or a fast and reliable long sword, hopefully something with a few tricks you can pull off with.
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Post #35096
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(February 6th 2013, 03:25 PM)Balkoth Wrote: snip

ive trained martial arts for quite a while too, and our sifu had a tendency of teaching us about unconventional methods of using various things as weapon.
this beeing said. You still wont use any of that as a primary weapon. thats just stupid.
As for claw weapons beeing used as effective weapons against swords for centuries: id like to see sources of that.
Because the only instance ive ever heard of them beeing used were Ninjas and something simmilar, the katar by indian nobles.

However indian Soldiers still actually had swords (tho quite different from european ones)

Quite frankly the reach is what makes it such an effective weapon.
Of course with the proper training you could be effective with a claw weapon.
But that still doesnt make it any more practical weapon.
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Post #35097
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Lol, what a sensless discussion ^^
A dagger has a blade. A fist is less than a dagger without blade.
So you got a claw?
I'd rather bet on Darius fighting with a fork against your fingernails :P
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Post #35098
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(February 6th 2013, 02:13 PM)Triskele Wrote: As to simply answer the OP: am hoping for nicely desgined bows. I love bows. Games can make or break this weapon, I hope they will be awesome.

One thing several others mentioned already as well; there are few games that do the spear right. Not something I'd prefer myself but it would be neat to see nice spear-animations and such, for a change.

Thank you for staying on track.


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